GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
They've won a Championship in the last 6 years.
It's probably now fair to say that Wemby has moved past MJ as a better player at the same age. Both as a player and as a winner.
It's probably now fair to say that Wemby has moved past MJ as a better player at the same age. Both as a player and as a winner.
I concur. It's really not up for discussion.
Case closed.
Checkmate.
I watched the game. You didn't. LeBron didn't dominate the ball at all. He was just extremely efficient whenever he touched it.
Lebron is a carried role player and not newsworthy... No other role player gets covered and Lebron shouldn't either.
And history shows that high assists are bad - teams that move the ball and have equitable distribution of the assists win with MUCH less help, while teams with a high assist player require thorough and historic deck stackage to win.
Ultimately, the Lakers would win by more if Lebron wasn't playing at all and Reaves was approaching 30 ppg like before.
Remember that the Lakers were the hottest team in the league heading into the 2023 playoffs but were swept in the Western Playoffs (nowhere near good enough).
Since 2020, the Lakers have been the only team with 2 dominant franchise players (AD, Lebron), while every other team has "normal" rosters of 0 or 1 franchise player.. Accordingly, if Lebron is too old to win numerous titles with this kind of advantage, then he shouldn't be covered and should be treated like every other aging player that can't get it done anymore.
Just like previous seasons, the Lakers should win the title this year because they have the best roster in the league.. They have the highest-scoring 1st and 2nd option, and then the best 3rd and 4th options (Lebron, Ayton)... They also have the most notable role players like DPOY Smart, Rui and much more.. Prime Jordan wins 10 straight titles with this roster, while prime Lebron actually had numerous BETTER rosters than this but barely won 1 chip with each one.
Prime Jordan never wins 10+ titles in any scenario. He proved that. He just retires.
19/15/10 on 67% shooting.
MJ never had a 15/15/10 on better than 65% shooting in his career.
Just add to the list of things LeBron has done that MJ hasn't.
Jordan's list is obviously much longer and substantive.
Jordan's list has stuff like DPOY, three-peats and 70 wins, while you're talking about double-doubles
Jordan won with normal rosters of 1 franchise player and career 2nd options, while Lebron needed super-teams of multiple franchise players and career 1st options.
He retired due to the goat burden - we can look at the numbers and see that no one in history had anywhere near his burden.
Otoh, he wouldn't have a big burden alongside Luka, Reaves and Ayton.. They would be the most help Jordan ever had, BY FAR, thus allowing him to play through and win 10 straight.. This is similar to the 8 straight that he could've won in the 90's
The Lakers have the best roster in the league and will win the title IF reaves can find ways to get his, and if Lebron's current caliber doesn't fall off in the playoffs.
Those are pretty big ifs
In all likelihood, Lebron continues to hinder Reaves, while his own play falls off once guys start playing hard (playoffs).
Hey you know whose teams also werent real contenders when he was 41? Or any time after his age 34 season?
Jordan's Wizards were worse than the 2019 Lakers (who were actually stacked).
The difference is that Jordan didn't get AD to lift him out of lottery, or Luka... Unlike Lebron, who played with a top 5 teammate since 2011, Jordan never did
And just for record keeping purposes. No one, not names LeBron James (4 times), has scored 30 points or more as a 41 year old.
But obviously not amazing.
Only 2 other players did it at 40 or older.
A bum just scored 36 points on FT's alone, so how can anyone take today's stats seriously - Bam confirmed that anyone can get theirs, so why would 41-year MJ or Lebron be any different
It's probably now fair to say that Wemby has moved past MJ as a better player at the same age. Both as a player and as a winner.
I actually like Wemby.. He's one of the few modern players that has impressed me in various ways like passion and competitiveness.
So I won't dispute this take despite disagreeing.
There's certainly a (losing) case to be made
I know Bob Knight would disagree
Also, LeBron's 19/15/10 came on a night he matched The all time games record played.
So, every other player in the NBA* couldn't even play the game any more while LeBron is dropping triple doubles on 67% shooting.
* Except Parish - Who dropped a 2/3/0 on his 1611th game.
Also, LeBron's 19/15/10 came on a night he matched The all time games record played.
So, every other player in the NBA* couldn't even play the game any more while LeBron is dropping triple doubles on 67% shooting.
* Except Parish - Who dropped a 2/3/0 on his 1611th game.
Lebron's level of play right now would rank around 1547th of all-time.
And that's with him being the Lance Armstrong of the NBA.
So there's nothing to be proud of... Lebron is still playing ONLY because he needs to make up for all his losses and save face for underwhelming team accomplishments..
And no one cares about the 8 straight Finals because we all know that he stacked the deck to ensure Finals runs, and then the West would expose him in the Finals for not having a real team.. The guy's career is a farce
^^^ You posted false data because Jordan led Pippen in assists for their Finals career, playoff career and regular season career, in addition to carrying the scoring load (defeating max defensive attention):
CAREER FINALS
Jordan..... 34 ppg... 6.0 apg... 2.8 TO.. 48%
Pippen.... 19 ppg... 5.9 apg... 3.3 TO.. 42%
In contrast to Jordan defeating max defensive attention, Lebron had equal-scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention..
Heck, Wade and AD led Lebron in scoring for the 11' and 20' Playoffs, effectively showing Lebron how to win (Wade) and how to make the playoffs out West (AD).. Carry on
Jordan said he retired because he couldn't handle the emotional grind of the NBA.
You know who didn't retire yet playing in the Finals nearly every damn season for nearly a decade? The GOAT LeBron.
Jordan said he retired because he couldn't handle the emotional grind of the NBA.
You know who didn't retire yet playing in the Finals nearly every damn season for nearly a decade?
It's easy to play long when you have teammates carrying you and you don't have to carry a big load like Jordan did.
Heck, Lebron's best season was 2013 when he only had to average 25 ppg in the regular season or Finals, while his sidekick averaged 20!!!... That's a tiny load and nothing compared to MJ, who always averaged over 30 and at least 10 ppg more than all teammates, while defeating max defensive attention (carrying scoring load).
1) The goat can't be a non-competitive mental midget that choked all the time and was known for fumbling hundreds of games down the stretch, thereby needing "closers"..
2) The goat can't quit and team up with opponents for the rest of his career.
3) The goat can't be everyone's b*tch by losing repeatedly to many teams in his prime despite having super-teams, preseason favorites and top 5 teammates.. Lebron is 17-36 against the Spurs, Warriors, and Nuggets in the playoffs, while also never avenging upsets to 1-star teams (Mavs, Magic, TWolves).. Again, the goat can't be everyone's b*tch.
4) The goat can't just be a talent-based winner (all-star team strategy) - they must have learned and executed all-time chemistry and brand of ball (the best basketball).
5) The goat must achieve goat caliber of basketball, such as dynasties, MVP/DPOY, 70 wins, 3-peats, and the top MVP quality (MVP's that come with titles and scoring titles, or DPOY)..
^^^ You posted false data because Jordan led Pippen in assists for their Finals career, playoff career and regular season career, in addition to carrying the scoring load (defeating max defensive attention):
CAREER FINALS
Jordan..... 34 ppg... 6.0 apg... 2.8 TO.. 48%
Pippen.... 19 ppg... 5.9 apg... 3.3 TO.. 42%
Wow imagine your case is that Jordan having 2 more assists in 35 games than Pippen, as Jordan not being carried.
Wow imagine your case is that Jordan having 2 more assists in 35 games than Pippen, as Jordan not being carried.
He desperately wants Jordan to have ALL of the big loads.
Wow imagine your case is that Jordan having 2 more assists in 35 games than Pippen, as Jordan not being carried.
Lebron was outscored by teammates for entire playoff runs, so that's far more "carried" than Jordan out-assisting Pippen.. lol smh
The fact that Jordan nearly doubled Pippen's scoring average yet STILL got more assists than Pippen shows how garbage Pippen is, and how great Jordan was (both things can be true).
Wow imagine your case is that Jordan having 2 more assists in 35 games than Pippen, as Jordan not being carried.
There's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than Jordan and Pippen, so the most carried 2nd option ever should never have sniffed MVP votes in seasons that Jordan played.. This is intuitive and objective reality.
Ultimately, Pippen never played above a prime Iguodala, Shawn Marion or Larry Nance caliber, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade.. This is statistical fact.
Wow imagine your case is that Jordan having 2 more assists in 35 games than Pippen, as Jordan not being carried.
Scoring help is the biggest kind of help because it's the category most correlated with salary.. Accordingly, carrying the "star" category of scoring provides GM's the flexibility to get the right "others" or defenders, aka elite roster construction..
Roster construction has always been a problem for Lebron because his need for massive scoring help doesn't allow room to get the right "others" or defenders.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction compared to guys that carry the scoring load like Curry, Kobe, Duncan and Jordan..
Unfortunately, Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams because excessive ball-dominance doesn't beat top teams.. That's why he never successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level, and never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams).
In addition to not carrying the scoring load, roster construction and development is further hampered by Lebron's skillset of turning everyone into spot-up shooter.
Jordan said he retired because he couldn't handle the emotional grind of the NBA.
You know who didn't retire yet playing in the Finals nearly every damn season for nearly a decade? The GOAT LeBron.
When did Lebron's Finals streak begin?.. It began after putting the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team.
It's amazing that he got props for winning the conference after that..
It was like Jordan teaming up with Isiah and McHale, yet people still praising him for winning the East.. "wow they made the Finals again - can you believe it??!"... LOL gtfo
Lebron diluted the conference so that he was facing teams led by Oladipo and Lance Stephenson, while not facing winning teams until the conference finals.
Not surprisingly, he was routinely exposed by the West in the Finals, while his first year out West was a lottery disaster... This debacle required AD to lift Lebron out of lottery and show him how to make the playoffs in a real conference.
Again, Lebron's career is manufactured and a farce.. He colluded to take over the East, while Jordan took over the LEAGUE naturally/organically.
