GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

We already looked and saw that Lebron shoots 46% on 3's in games where he shoots 10 or more. And it's a sample much bigger than the Jordan sample. So your little cherry picking stat that makes Jordan look respectable on 3's is debunked.

We know that MJ was a natural and great shooter because he barely needed any volume to show consistency from distance, while Lebron needs an extreme heat check to keep shooting because he isn't a good shooter.. 3 attempts was enough to guarantee good efficiency from MJ, while Lebron needs 10... Makes sense

We know what mj shot from 3 over his career. I'm starting with that.

We know that he was a relentless worker and competitor. We know he can shoot the FT and the 2.

I don't doubt he would be Jaylen Brown from 3. I can't say he would be this great 3 point shooter. In fact, I don't think he has that sort of build. How many skywalkers are that type? shooters become shooters because it is a gift, but also because they work at it because they know it separates them from others. Jordan types work on driving, finishing, shooting over guys, gettin out on the wing fast break and running, 360 dunks, catchin oops and all that. And it is rare that they are "gifted" in the shooting area because it is a somewhat rare gift, like an elite military sniper is rare, and there aren't that many skywalkers.

But Jordan was a smart guy, so as a youngster, if he knew the 3 ball was so important, he would work on it and he might be a gifted long range bomber. But then all the turnarounds, all the drives he did in games and in practices...how many practice hours do you think a guy has when he reaches his full height to when he plays his first NBA game? say 16 years old to 19. 3 years. You got to work on something and something else gives.

But he'd keep on working.

You bring up an interesting point...

Curry was carrying the Warriors before KD arrived, which makes KD and Lebron inferior to Curry because they needed someone else to show them how to win...

accordingly, it's CURRY that is definitively better than Lebron..

Curry has the great skillset and chemistry needed to win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player, while Lebron's simpleton "downhill" skillset imposes spot-up roles and bad chemistry - this weak chemistry requires "super-teams" of 3 franchise players, and mostly loses due to the bad chemistry.

Jordan's career percentage reflects mostly bailout volume and is therefore irrelevant... For example, if Curry was restricted to 1 highly-contested three per game at the end of the shot-clock, he would shoot poorly too.... And that's what happened to MJ, because he didn't want to shoot threes at all, so he only took 1 bailout per game when forced to (at the end of shot clocks).

So again, Jordan's career percentage reflects bailout volume and is meaningless - that's why I looked at his numbers at 3+ attempts.

Does Jaylen Brown shoot well on FT's?

Is Jaylen Brown the goat 2-point jumpshooter?

Does he have goat form?

Does he have the goat turnaround and goat pull-up?

Did he always shoot well from three at 3+ attempts?

Does he have big man hands?

Does he have goat elevation on his shots or goat quickness?

So wtf are you talking about with the Jaylen Brown comparison?.. Jaylen Brown is a stick figure robot snail compared to MJ.. They aren't similar.

Just checking that you are upset that the team with the 15th pick didn't take the guy who ended up going 46th?

lol at those clips. Today's NBA teams would score 150 against that.

No, I’m upset they didn’t trade their two third rounders to move up and take him. And I would bet a whole lot that he was much higher on their board than 46.

Obviously, nobody back then valued shooting like today, and Frank Layden (RIP) openly despised the 3pt shot.

FWIW I know firsthand that the Jazz tried to trade for Jeff very early on. They should’ve listened to Dell predraft.

Don’t get me started on the Jazz trading 14 & 21 to move up for Trey Burke, when they could’ve just stayed put and…

Can Philly fans be upset they didn’t take Jokic at 32 or 39?

/jazztardation

I'll take the word of the top 3 players in the game over yours.

Luka, Giannis and Jokic all say that the current NBA is a joke and much easier to score than international formats, which don't have defensive 3 or limits on physicality..

Ultimately, I guess you never played basketball before.... EVER.... because otherwise you would know that it's harder to score on packed paints - you wouldn't look at a packed paint and say "that's easier to score on than a wide open paint".

Yet that's what you're saying... So you have no concept of the game... Packed paints and physicality is simply harder - now you know, although Luka, Giannis and Jokic already told you.

Ultimately, today's game mandates an open paint - it's a bastardization of the game... Accordingly, today's game and 3-point format plays more like a DRILL than actual basketball, aka high screen rol, then drive-and-kick for a three - defenses shift and scramble to defend it... Rinse repeat... The players HATE it and treat it like a real job where they want time off all the time.. They don't enjoy "threeball" like they enjoyed basketball, hence the lack of caring or wanting to compete.. Hence the ratings cratering compared to prior eras (although Jordan's return to NBC caused a bump this yr).

Ultimately, if today's players took the same amount of threes as prior eras, they would score much less in those gifs because they're vastly inferior at 2-pointers, while the packed paints and increased physicality make it harder as well.

That's like saying if NFL teams didn't pass the way they do that it would be harder to run the ball on old school 4-3 defenses.

Okay?

Amazing.

.

Today's defenses allow the most points ever, but they would do much better if they could hand-check and impede ballhandlers, or didn't have to deal with defensive 3 (aka old school rules).

These are obvious facts and the top 3 players in the world agree (see video above).

80s/90s defenses allow less points, but they would do much worse if teams knew how to play offense. It would be a blood bath.

bball 101 tells us that the primary method of generating a consistent high volume of 3-point shots is drive-and-kick.

Accordingly, if the drive-and-kick is hindered in any way, this reduces 3-point attempts... And we know that the presence of hand-checking hinders penetration, and therefore drive-and-kick and threes.. The same is true of defensive 3 - the absence of it hinders penetration and therefore drive-and-kick and threes.

Essentially, we don't know if today's game would be the same threeball format if the NBA brought back hand-checking and impeding, while eliminating defensive 3.. The reality is that the recent skyrocketing of everyone's stats and the three-point revolution can be directly traced to the no impede rules instituted around 2017 - this optimized "downhill" and drive-and-kick, thus increasing threes and the stats of every ball-handler like Harden, Westbrook, etc

In contrast to us not knowing how today's offenses would fare back then, we know that today's defenses would improve if hand-checking returned, or impeding, or defensive 3

2026 rules

"17 Warriors" 142, "96 Bulls" 95. Blood bath

1996 rules

"17 Warriors" 123, "96 Bulls" 89. Blood bath

Since today's players all-but lose internationally to 3rd world nations that don't have indoor basketball, they would get destroyed by NBA players from prior eras.. Their simpleton downhill skillsets would get destroyed by the discipline and ball movement of prior eras.

Ultimately, everyone agrees that the hand-checking ban, defensive 3 and teammates to space the floor with 30 threes per game means that MJ would average 40-50 today, aka GOAT

Btw, remember that today's best Americans are trash compared to Americans from prior eras, aka Tatum/Ant/Ja vs Shaq/MJ/Robinson/Barkley, etc.. The devolution of the American player is due to the weak AAU development system and the mainstreaming of a simpleton "downhill" skillset that produces the worst chemistry of all-time

Btw, Lebron destroyed these Lakers just like I said lol

In a perfect world, Lebron would've retired after last season where he got to play with his son - what a historic finish and he wouldn't have looked that bad.... Then Luka would've had free reign to build chemistry with his team this season... It certainly looked phenomenal to start the season until LeDeadWeight came back made everyone carry his negative presence.. Not surprisingly, the wheels fell off for this team as they couldn't carry such a massive negative for long

Finals

2017..... 100 Pace.... 115 DRTG.... Lebron 33 ppg
1993....... 90 Pace.... 113 DRTG.... Jordan 41 ppg

Jordan averaged 41 in much slower-paced and defensive series, so he might average close to 50 against the Warriors in today's rules - the Warriors have a physically-weak backcourt that won't provide resistance to MJ, while KD must deal with physically-tough Rodman and Pippen, so KD has the tougher path... Meanwhile, Curry gets Jordan and Harper.. lol.. Bulls sweep.

I think everyone agrees if MJ played today he would be Derozen. Good solid player. All-star level. Really good at the games most inefficient shot.

You're going to have to make your mind up if you think Pippen and Rodman are good or not. You can't argue both things.

I think probably 10 of the teams in today's league push the Bulls to at least 7 games or win.

The 90s was so bad. Horrendous for basketball skill.

Firstly, you must think KD is awesome to think he would beat the frieking 96' Bulls 143-103 or whatever you said initially.. You would never say that about Lebron because Lebron was beaten by that margin himself against the Spurs, or choked against the 1-star Mavs, and otherwise has a lottery record against top teams (Finals teams).

Secondly, Tatum locked up KD, so it stands to reason that Pippen could do at least as well as Tatum, especially since the Bulls played the physical style that the Celtics played in that series.. KD is just lucky that he faced a matador defender that hadn't made all-defense in years (Lebron) to win his 2 FMVP's.

Finally, the 90's and prior eras were far better at 2-pointers (basketball). I could care less about 3's and don't believe it constitutes skill.. It's just an arbitrary gimmick where a 24-footer is worth 50% more than than a 23-footer .. This arbitrary bs eventually bastardized the game into the drill-like "threeball" format (not real basketball) that we see today - players and fans like it less than the real basketball of prior eras.. These things are proven by massive "load management" and TV ratings decline, respectively.

The WCF and Western Playoffs was the real Finals, and that's where Kobe led (while Shaq only averaged 25).

Secondly, 35.7 PPG is a lot for the 2nd and 3rd option - it's more than Pau/Odom, Pippen/Grant, or Pippen/Kukoc... Pippen only averaged 19.0 on 42% for his 6 Finals, while the 3rd option ranged between 11-15.

Thirdly, it's common knowledge that Lebron's skillset and brand of ball destroyed Bosh... Accordingly, the 35.7 number should be well over 40, but Bron-ball is simply the worst brand/chemistry ever - it has the longest list of teammate craterings and underachieves rosters the most of any top 15 all-time candidate.

.
.
Look how high MJ's feet are off the ground:

Btw, since MJ didn't want to take threes, these "bailout" shots at the end of shot-clock were the only kind of threes he took.. Accordingly, Jordan's many seasons with barely 1 attempt of "bailout volume" deflates his career percentage - that's why I only looked at seasons or series that he took 3+ attempts, and he always shot well at these modern volumes... Jordan never shot poorly at 3+ attempts, while Lebron has many seasons and series of bad efficiency at 3+ attempts.