Collusion at Final Table of Millionaire Maker!
Yaginuma vs Carroll. Carroll enters final table with 10 to 1 chip lead, Yaginuma gets $1 million dollar bonus from Club
Club WPT Gold has an easy case to deny the $1m due to violation of the TOS.
WSOP, the risk here is to future business. The last thing some rec wandering to Vegas to take a shot, ignorant of some dumb promo from an online site, wants is to be the fodder for 3-4 guys at a final table colluding to simply get themselves to the final 3-4. If that's the perception, and to any semi-intelligent person it will be, then fewer recs will pony up and the game becomes even more of a scumbag circle jerk than it already is.
Does the WSOP have a rule against this? Even so, is it worth all the money and time that would be spent not paying out and dealing with lawsuits?Same with WPT. Gotta factor in the cost of lawsuits back and forth if they don't pay out.Would be interesting to know the agreement, is it just the two of them splitting the entirety of all the money? I imagine with the bracelet/win
How would they even enforce a rule like that in court if both players never admit to colluding? It's not like they signed a binding contract between themselves to split the prize money. most likely was a closed doors handshake agreement..
How would they even enforce a rule like that in court if both players never admit to colluding? It's not like they signed a binding contract between themselves to split the prize money. most likely was a closed doors handshake agreement..
It’s obvious to any poker player it was collusion but to the layman in court, it could be difficult to get that across. Like that Postle guy survived court I think because the judge just didn’t get how obvious the cheating was.
I do think perhaps there are cases to be made mathematically about how impossible this HU was. Basically Potripper kinda winrates.
Club WPT Gold has an easy case to deny the $1m due to violation of the TOS.WSOP, the risk here is to future business. The last thing some rec wandering to Vegas to take a shot, ignorant of some dumb promo from an online site, wants is to be the fodder for 3-4 guys at a final table colluding to simply get themselves to the final 3-4. If that's the perception, and to any semi-int
I do feel a lot of people are underplaying the game integrity issue here. Clearly if Carroll and the other guy are grinders who have confidence to pull this HU, they at some point know before HU that they each get $500k bonus if it’s just the two of them. That can definitely affect how they play.
Also agree it’s just a bad look to recs like Tamayo having a solver laptop.
Seems pretty obvious cheating though I don't see how any third party player was harmed if it only happened while heads up.
Clubwpt can just not pay because they are some shady poker company, don't think they even need proof. If they did need proof I don't think what we have would be enough.
Wsop normally wouldn't care and hope it would just go away but may end up caring because so much press about it.
How would they even enforce a rule like that in court if both players never admit to colluding? It's not like they signed a binding contract between themselves to split the prize money. most likely was a closed doors handshake agreement..
Well, for the WPT if they decide not to pay, it's up to the player affected to then sue them. The time and cost of lawsuits is expensive, and I imagine WPT is better positioned to handle a long drawn-out court battle compared to the player.
Unless an attorney thinks they can easily win the case and takes it on a contingency basis.
Then there's the flip-side, the WPT loses either way. They get heat if they award the money given what appears to be clear collusion, but they also lose if they fight because there are people who will think they should just pay up.
And then they have to consider the time and cost of litigating, is it worth it compared to just paying up.
Shitty spot all around.
X is pretty wild lol!!!!!!!!
I hope this guy sees 0 dollars from WPT. This blatant collusion is pathetic. To have the gall to say in an interview that his bracelet is legit lmao. Just extremely obvious they had some kind of deal like "if I bet this kind of number means I have it" and "if I raise you on flop it means you can 3b and I will fold every time".
The poker news summary article of the bracelet win is laughable. Imagine the kind of complete lack of journalistic integrity you need to have to write a summary of that heads up and not in a single sentence mention that the one guy is losing on purpose.
I hope this guy sees 0 dollars from WPT. This blatant collusion is pathetic. To have the gall to say in an interview that his bracelet is legit lmao. Just extremely obvious they had some kind of deal like "if I bet this kind of number means I have it" and "if I raise you on flop it means you can 3b and I will fold every time".The poker news summary article of the bracelet win i
I don't get the outrage. Chops are a standard part of MTTs. This outcome was likely planned by WPT. If there is any animosity maybe be upset with WPT marketing for upsetting your integrity?
What if Carroll dumped his entire stack in the first four hands of HU??
Seeing some posts on reddit that indicate that Carroll and Yaginuma played suspiciously against each other 3 handed as well... I havent seen the footage (and I wont - surely someone else is going to do it) but if thats true and there are indications that they were actively trying to get HU so Yaginuma could win instead of playing proper poker 3 way then thats even worse.
Damn maybe the competitor to WSOP shouldn't have dangled a 7 figure carrot in front of the players. Never heard of this gold ticket thing is the idea if you won one in some online freeroll and then also happen to bink a bracelet event you get 1m? Lol I guess they figured most people in line wouldn't have wasted their time on some meme freeroll.
The regs on Twitter are defending what they did, but really feels like a case of play stupid games win stupid prizes. Not that I have a burning desire to see the top two get punished, but you have to be professional poker player naive to not think there are consequences from so openly exploiting a promotion from one corporation on a premier live-streamed final table for another corporation.
Play one poker tournament for 5 straight days through a landmine of 12,000 runners...........make it to heads up with both having $1,000,000 locked up............and then decide to break the rules.
WSOP making a huge mistake here. they should have just snap payed out winners, said nothing and moved on. only 5 nerds would be talking about it a month from now. by drawing attention with a nonsense investigation its gonna have legs. WPT is 100% paying, they cant wait to pay. this is exactly what they wanted. everyone is talking about WPT promotions and shipping players millions of dollars.
WSOP events go down like that all the time, nobody cares (outside people on social media who always care about everything). People obviously chop heads-up and sometimes one of the players wants the bracelet more than the other and is willing to pay for it.There's also no collusion in a poker sense because that requires a third party getting hurt. You can argue the two players c
Player of the year race could be impacted
25K fantasy could be impacted
Maybe not in this specific case but generally
WSOP making a huge mistake here. they should have just snap payed out winners, said nothing and moved on. only 5 nerds would be talking about it a month from now. by drawing attention with a nonsense investigation its gonna have legs. WPT is 100% paying, they cant wait to pay. this is exactly what they wanted. everyone is talking about WPT promotions and shipping players milli
The WSOP tournament rules are pretty clear that this is not acceptable. What exactly to do about is a weird question - the "fairest" decision would be to pay both players 3rd place money (which they appear to have earned via fair and honest play). I just don't know what I would do with the bracelet and the forfeited prize money since it doesn't really make sense for the WSOP to keep it.
The WSOP tournament rules are pretty clear that this is not acceptable. What exactly to do about is a weird question - the "fairest" decision would be to pay both players 3rd place money (which they appear to have earned via fair and honest play). I just don't know what I would do with the bracelet and the forfeited prize money since it doesn't really make sense for the WSOP to
the WSOP makes their own rules and enforces their own rules at whatever speed they like. they had plausible deniability for a while and could have just paid and moved on. final table deals are normal in poker and WSOP events going back to the 1st tournament! if this was already paid out and WSOP just threw their hands up, the story would already be over. all of their decisions are brand decisions and this dragging on hurts the brand far more than just snap paying and saying, "oh well".
Can't imagine being dumb enough to think it would go unnoticed. Even if you felt there would be no repercussions, it's absurd to put such a massive score at risk. Talk about a huge sweat. given the tweet about from WSOP, seems likely there not going receive winnings, even if it's somehow mostly proven that collusion only occurred heads up.
