Shaun Deeb 100k to 1M 17% body fat bet with Bill Perkins

So are GLP-1s vaccines for fat

The existance of a drug that reduces something does not mean that something is a biological disease.... If I chemically castrate rapists they will stop getting erections and stop raping. That doesnt make being a rapist a disease. You still havent come up with a single argument that isnt countered with the rapist example. Just admit that you think rape is a disease so we can ignore the rest of your arguments.

The fantastic efficacy of the GLP-1 and dual acting hormone mimics and their mechanistic effects on appetite, cravings, satiety, and insulin resistance means that there are biological processes responsible for morbid obesity and type 2 diabetes, and that it is fantastically effective to target those biological processes when diet and exercise alone do not.

You mysteriously overlooked the decades of academic scientific research that won the leaders in the field the Lasker Award and that provided the foundational knowledge that Lilly and Novo were able to translate into human clinical benefit.

You also overlooked that the foundational research for nearly all highly effective therapies for treating human disease comes not from the big Pharma companies but from academic and basic research. But the latter are not specialized or equipped to translate basic advances into biomedical breakthroughs, which instead falls to Pharma and biotechnology industries.

You also failed to mention how much economic benefit there is in the form of reduced overall healthcare costs and prevention of lost worker productivity from the semaglutide mimics in treating the morbidly obese, preventing their development of type 2 diabetes, and reducing the risks of heart attack and stroke.

Again you ignore the point that you have a hard deterministic philosophical outlook which also means that stuff like rape and murder should be excused as diseases. Chemical castration removes sexual urges and therefore rape. Lobotomy removes aggressive behavior and therefore murder. Neither of those problems are diseases just because you can change the behavior with biological interventions.

And you still ignore the point that biological interventions fantastically effective for morbid obesity tap into underlying biological processes that control appetite, cravings, satiety, and insulin resistance, and that when these biological processes go awry it indicates the presence of disease. It's been considered a disease for nearly 80 years, and mountains of scientific findings on these biological processes in the intervening years have only bolstered the designation.

Type 2 diabetes, for which morbid obesity is a powerful risk factor, is also a disease, even when major causes of the underlying insulin resistance are excessive weight and excessive sugar intake:

Type 2 diabetes is a chronic, lifelong disease. It occurs when your body either resists the effects of insulin or doesn't produce enough to maintain normal glucose levels. This leads to high blood sugar, which can cause severe damage to your vital organs over time.

Imagine the sad life you live if you go around believing free will is a non factor. Glad Im not you guys.

Typical excuse for people who have made a metric ton of moronic decisions in their lives looking for an excuse.

Im not ignoring anything you say. Im saying that you can make the exact same arguments that you make for obesity about rape. Im perfectly cohesive. I see rape and obesity as the same thing in terms of how biological factors and mental factors such as free will and self control interact to guide your decision.

You are the one refusing to say what you think about rape, because you see that you have two choices. Disagree that rape is a disease, which ruins your own arguments about obesity, or agree that it is a disease, which also makes it clear that your chain of arguments is moronic.

Murder and rape are criminal acts. Introducing them into a discussion of the disease of morbid obesity is irrelevant.

Type 2 diabetes, on the other hand is both relevant and illustrative. Like morbid obesity, it is often triggered by poor diet and negligent exercise. It's also considered a disease, and has been for a long, long time.

Is opioid addiction a 'disease'?

You say many but this isnt true. Estimated only 1-5% of obese people are obese because of monogenic obesity.
The other 95-99% are sensitive to gaining weight but if they have a healthy diet, portion control & are exercising they would not be obese. They are obese because they choose not to do those things. But I do get that in a culture where fast food is available on every corner those choices are made very difficult for them. Nonetheless, it remains a choice.

This comment is silly. When I wrote that 'for many [with morbid obesity], diet and exercise changes are not enough, it referred to morbid obesity as a whole, and not the rare monogenic instances of it.

So how about it? Is type 2 diabetes a disease? I surmise you'll say it's not, because major causal factors depend on diet and exercise.

I'd suggest you ask major medical organizations. They're made up of the people who diagnose and treat diseases professionally.

I would have to agree with you, sadly. I did go to what you call a super elite college, but yeah, I've mainly squandered my opportunities.

There are unfortunately many, many people like namisgr77 who don't believe in personal agency or personal responsibility. They think everyone is a victim of circumstance, shaped by forces outside of their control. People aren't to blame for their own actions, it is genetics, or society, or a "disadvantaged upbringing" that is responsible for the poor personal choices people make and/or the crimes they commit.

I feel bad for the guy getting speared by a bull and the motorbike rider who wipes out.

Sure they put themselves in harms way but I still feel bad for them.

If someone gets hurt no matter the circumstances I feel bad for them.

If you dont thats a bit concerning.

We know from our research in addictions that different people tend to develop different addictions.

Some people are predisposition to develop an addiction to caffein but are totally fine smoking weed.

Others get addicted to alcohol easily but have no problem with cocaine.

It is widely accepted that different people experience addictions differently.

So what you might perceive as an easy bit of discipline might be an almost insurmountable Challenge for somebody else.

Your subjective experience might just not translate into an objective truth and even less to somebody elses subjective challenges.

I for example have been fat all my life. I had a rough childhood and found comfort in food. It was an easy escape from a broken home. Later it was the alcohol and drugs. So although I am fat because I drink too much beer and eat to much food it might be a bit harder for me to just put the fork down than you think because of the eating disorder I picked up at some point.

So although technical it is very easy to stop overeating it is similarly easy to just not smoke, to not gamble and to not give in to any other addiction.

On a subjective level though it might not be that easy.

I can feel bad for someone but still think they are responsible for their own actions and consequences. Its not like asking someone to take responsibility for their part means I've lost a chunk of empathy for them.
Maybe not so much for the bull runner because I regard that as animal cruelty for which I hold no sympathy.

So was my point. You claimed that for most obese people changes in diet and exercise by themselves are not enough while the numbers show this holds only true for 1-5%

Out of "morbid obseity as a whole" 95-99% wouldnt be obese if they practiced a healthy diet, portion control & excericse regularly. So it would be enough.

Again, thats not disputing some people have it really really tough due to physical sensitivies, culture, availability of fast food etc etc

People out there really think taking in less calories will not work. It's thermal dynamics. It's impossible for it to not work, and there's nothing you can do or say to make it not true

It's neither the question at hand or in doubt.

1. The majority of people suffering from morbid obesity do not achieve significant weight loss and reach healthy weight by trying to modify their diet and exercise alone. Majority = over 50%.

2. Type 2 diabetes is often (but not always) brought on by being overweight and consuming too much sugar, the combination driving insulin resistance and loss of homeostatic blood glucose control. In this disease as well, the majority are unable to reverse their type 2 diabetes through a focus on diet and exercise alone.

3. What does work for the majority in both diseases are therapeutics and surgical procedures that reduce appetite, abnormal cravings, and achieve satiety with less food intake.

Sorry, but you've made a misread.

Diseases are not simply cured by personal agency or responsibility. Let's see you will away your bipolar disease, your schizophrenia, or your anorexia. The underlying pathobiology places limitations on the capacity to will these away. The uncommon exceptions of sufferers from morbid obesity or type 2 diabetes who can use their willpower to overcome their disease do not overturn that the majority of those with these diseases cannot.

Nobody said anything about "trying". You're arguing that the majority of people have no willpower and no self-discipline, and on that I agree completely. You're attributing this lack of willpower and self-discipline to immutable genetic conditions that cannot be overcome. I am arguing that our society is plagued by your widely-shared mindset that people aren't responsible for their own behaviors. What separates (most) human beings from other animals is that they are not slaves to their base instincts. They have agency, bear responsibility for their actions and for resisting their instinctual, primal urges. That isn't to say nobody should have pity for people who are too weak to overcome these urges, but we should make very clear that succumbing to these weaknesses is not something that is outside of their control. This remains true no matter how many people are weak or how many (like you) seek to make excuses for them.

Actually, I'm stating the facts that (1) morbid obesity meets classical definition of a disease; (2) the majority of the morbidly obese are unable to accomplish their weight loss goal through diet and exercise alone; and (3) there are pathobiological mechanisms in the morbidly obese that dysregulate their appetite, cravings for food, and feelings of satiety, and that make it more difficult than for those of healthy weights to achieve and sustain weight loss goals through diet and exercise modifications.

If you think that most people suffering from morbid obesity are capable of 'just say no' to cure their disorder, then you must think the same about type 2 diabetes, anorexia, and for that matter any mental or eating disorder, that they can be willed away by most people.

WTF saw a pic of the sloth Shaun Deeb today...HE IS FAT AGAIN!!!