GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
It can be juvenile, but once in a while I bring some order to the place
He did nothing with the league MVP in 95'
Then he 3-peated with MJ...
Then he did nothing with peak Shaq in 99'
Ultimately, he was viable in 96', but then he averaged 4/8 for the entire 97' playoffs.. This forced MJ to co-lead the rebounding and average 8 RPG as well...
And then Rodman wasn't even the starter for the 98' Playoffs.. Ultimately, old Rodman < 2008 Ben Wallace or 2010 Shaq
Bulls had 3 players with chips. Rodman, Jordan and Pippen. Total of 8 chips, about the same as the Warriors. Once again, make your mind up if you think Pippen and Rodman are good or not.
Experience is a team thing.. The Bulls had already won at a higher level than anyone ever via the modern era 3-peat, so the Warriors' one-off experience doesn't compare
1) Kevin Looney........ aka zero rim protection in today's game compared to the 90's... It would be laughable how easy MJ has it against the Warriors.. There's no Ewing, Oakley, Mason, and X-Man - just Looney.. MJ would laugh and laugh...
In the 92' ECSF against the Knicks, MJ was asked "why so many jumpers in this series??".. MJ replied "they've got 5 guys in the paint.. Heck, if they open up the lane I'll go in there, but it's closed right now".. (I paraphrased slightly)... The point is that MJ would be flabbergasted at how open the paint is and how little resistance there is .. It's 100% night and day EASIER than what he faced in the 90's and it would shock him.
2) Iggy and Klay are the perfect kind of defender that MJ dominates, aka a slower 6'6" or 6'7" dude... And it's especially easy if they can't score or aren't a big defensive assignment, which neither Klay or Iggy is... This leaves more energy for offense, although the main thing is simply facing a like-sized opponent that's less athletic.. MJ would face that against the Warriors,
As a 6'6" guy myself, my favorite opponent was another dude that was my height but less athletic and couldn't score... It's called RagdollCity.. It's an actual destination that exists and I've been there... We saw MJ go there against Drexler in the 92' Finals... People are still surprised at how dominant he was - I'm not.. It's the perfect situation to face someone that you're physically a little better than in every way.
TLDR: 40 (that's ppg)
Today's players shoot WORSE from that distance (long 2) than the regular 3 point line
And the shorter line naturally shrinks the court and spacing - defenders have less ground to cover - that's why scoring actually cratered during the shortened line years
Carry on
Tell me you didn't watch the 2017 Warriors without telling me you didn't watch the 2017 Warriors.
They were a physically weak team
Klay, Curry, Durant, Looney - aka weak sauce - aka bully victims..
Compare that to Ewing, X-Man, Oakley and Mason - that's 4 Draymonds.
Furthermore, the Warriors nearly lost to a couple of career losing ball-dominators in CP3 and Harden, so their caliber simply isn't that high.. The only reason Curry won 73 is because they were 1st team to play the current 3ball format.. But now that every team shoots that many threes (and much more), the Warriors main advantage is gone and they wouldn't even beat today's teams, let alone the 96' Bulls.
Gil says it best:
Beat MJ by a dub??.. lol
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Regular Season
Playoffs
Not really:
FINALS
15' Klay..... 15.8 on 41%
16' Klay..... 19.6 on 43%
17' Klay..... 16.4 on 40%
18' Klay..... 16.0 on 48%
22' Klay..... 17.0 on 36%
^^^ Klay was a Finals choker, and he was already a much lower producer than Jeff Hornacek (see stats above).
6'7" shooting guards like Steve Smith, Majerle, Reggie Miller and Drexler all cratered against MJ.. Remember that the 90's had tons of 6'7" starting SG's while today's game has none, and 4 of the 5 positions are shorter than they've ever been.. The 17' Warriors would be the physically weakest and smallest team MJ ever faced
Klay's hard to defend because you have to run 1,000,000 miles per game around 2,000,000 screens.
Watch basketball before you say stupid things.
WaRrIoRs oNlY wOn bEcAuSe ThEy sHoT a LoT oF 3s.
Idiot.
They barely led the league in 3 point attempts and they didn't lead the league in 3 pointers as percentage of total shots.
Even if they did win because they shot a lot of 3s, that doesnt make it any less valid a win
You haven't watched MJ - no one IN HISTORY chased guys off screens better than "the black cat":
Klay's hard to defend because you have to run 1,000,000 miles per game around 2,000,000 screens.
^^^ That's an energy issue and MJ already defended far more productive screen-runners like Hornacek, Miller, Allan Houston, Dale Ellis, Majerle, Price (shown above), Mahmoud Abdul Rauf, Stockton, Isiah and many more.
You simply underestimate the breadth of players that MJ defended, aka all the best point guards and shooting guards in the league
Furthermore, seeing that today's offenses allow players to camp at the 3-point line and wait for high-screen PNR kickouts, Jordan would exert less energy chasing guys than the superior ball movement he defended in previous eras.
WaRrIoRs oNlY wOn bEcAuSe ThEy sHoT a LoT oF 3s.Idiot.They barely led the league in 3 point attempts and they didn't lead the league in 3 pointers as percentage of total shots.
2017 was still the infancy of the 3ball format and the Warriors still had an edge, but it was clearly declining based on the crappier numbers of the 2017 team compared to 15' or 16'
So you're making my point - the league had already nearly caught up and therefore the 17' Warriors weren't that good... A fugazi. It turns out that it isn't too hard to simply SHOOT MORE THEEES.. "ok coach"... Anyone can do it .. Easy game (today's game)
Even if they did win because they shot a lot of 3s, that doesnt make it any less valid a win
It means that anyone Tom, Dick, and Harry can do it, which is why they wouldn't be as good today (since today's teams shoot even more threes).
It turns out that it isn't hard to simply shoot more threes, which is why the Warriors were a fugazi front-runner that the Bulls would've destroyed via sweep (4 or 5 games)..
In addition to being front-runners offensively, the 17' Warriors would be the most physically weak team that the Bulls ever faced.. It would be a cakewalk
It means that anyone Tom, Dick, and Harry can do it, which is why they wouldn't be as good today (since today's teams shoot even more threes).It turns out that it isn't hard to simply shoot more threes, which is why the Warriors were a fugazi front-runner that the Bulls would've destroyed via sweep (4 or 5 games).. In addition to being front-runners offensively, the 17' Warrior
It doesnt mean that, but if anyone could do it why aren't you in the NBA?
2017 was still the infancy of the 3ball format and the Warriors still had an edge, but it was clearly declining based on the crappier numbers of the 2017 team compared to 15' or 16'
Crappier numbers of the 67 wins (4th highest SRS of all time) and going 16-1 in the playoffs.
You obviously have some high expectations...
2017 Warriors finished 5th in 3 point attempts that year to.
But they wouldn't survive in today's game.
So dumb.
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For Lebron to make his first playoffs in 2006, he needed the East all-star center and an acquisition that was better than 1990 Pippen on both sides of the ball:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hughela01.html.................. 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-DBasketball-Reference.comLarry Hughes Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.comhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html.................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-DBasketball-Reference.comScottie Pippen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
'.............. 21.9 PER... 0.184 WS/48... 2.1 VORP... 1.6 BPM... 16/8/1 (2 bpg)https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html..................... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/7/5Basketball-Reference.comScottie Pippen Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Lebron got 3 years to develop a favored high seed before entering his first playoffs, while MJ was thrown into the playoffs in Year 1 as an 8 seed (the worst cast in the league).
Help needed to make playoffs
06' LEBRON...... East all-star center.... 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition
85' JORDAN...... nothing
Help needed to win 50 games and make 2nd Round
06' LEBRON...... East all-star center.... 22/5/5 all-defender acquisition
88' JORDAN...... nothing
^^^ 3rd healthy season for both
And if teams can't defend against it then they lose. Because teams figured out the most efficient way to win.
They could for sure go back to trying to play contested long 2s like in the 90s but they would get pummeled.
And if teams can't defend against it then they lose. Because teams figured out the most efficient way to win.
They could for sure go back to trying to play contested long 2s like in the 90s but they would get pummeled.
Again, anyone can play that way (jacking threes).. The 96' Bulls could play that way just like today's NBA or today's kindergarten kids do.. Jacking threes isn't hard or skillful.
And defending threes is a function of effort and team chemistry, which the Bulls had more than anyone in history - they were more equipped to defend threes than any team in history.
Accordingly, we can conclude that the Bulls would destroy the Warriors, since they were based on a gimmick - the Warriors' advantage was something that anyone can do and everyone caught up to (threes), while also being the physically weakest team the Bulls would've ever faced, and therefore unable to subsist in any other format/era/rules.. The Warriors are literally nothing compared to the Bulls.
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FINALS
12' LEBRON...... 29 ppg
12' WADE.......... 23 ppg
13' LEBRON...... 25 ppg
13' WADE ......... 20 ppg
16' LEBRON...... 29 ppg
16' KYRIE.......... 27 ppg
20' LEBRON...... 28 ppg
20' AD............... 25 ppg
^^^ Not carry-jobs
Lebron needed equal scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, while Jordan defeated max defensive attention by carrying the scoring load.. Jordan averaged 10 to 20 more points than all teammates in every Finals, compared to 2 to 6 for Lebron..
Lebron simply never carried the scoring load on the championship level successfully (never defeated max defensive attention), and he never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams).
Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams because excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams.. Otoh, guys like Curry, MJ, Duncan and Kobe can drop 40 while the ball moves, and therefore maintain sufficient brand at high scoring levels to beat top teams..
Carrying the "star" category of scoring matters because it requires less stars, thereby allowing GM's to get the right "others" or defenders, aka elite roster construction.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction compared to Curry or Kobe, while his skillset of imposing spot-up roles further hampers roster construction and young player development.. Lebron's hindering of roster development is why he produces the neediest teams in history (bar none) and produces much weaker teams than his peers..
For example, he needed 3rd options like Bosh and Love that were considered better than Kobe's 2nd option (Pau), or Curry and Duncan's 2nd options (Klay, Parker).. His skillset and brand of ball (ball-dominance) clearly needs more help (the most in history).
Thread Cliffs
A bunch of impressionable, weak-minded people fell for a massive steroid user.. Lebron is the Barry Bonds of basketball, aka not the goat and a perennial loser, colluder, flopper, and load-manager that can't produce great teams/dynasties.. His ball-dominant skillset cratered many teammates and can't develop young players (turns everyone into spot-up shooter), thereby producing the weakest chemistry/teams of any top 15 candidate.
Lebron wouldn't have to leave LA if he had sufficient IQ and was good enough at basketball to avoid clashing with fellow ballhandlers (Luka, Westbrook, Ingram, Hughes) or cratering 3rd options (Reaves, Love, Bosh, Jamison).
Unfortunately, his skillset imposes spot-up roles and therefore isn't capable of developing elite chemistry.. The inability to develop chemistry means that Lebron's teams must win QUICKLY upon forming a super-team before the luster wears off and the team realizes they have no chemistry (and can't develop any).
What a fraudulent bum that is the worst-ever at many things, aka chemistry, loyalty, clutch, perseverance.. lol enjoy your fraud.
