Is the Las Vegas tourism downturn hitting the poker rooms?
Apparently this is a substantially down year for tourism in Vegas. One would think this would affect the action in the
Poker was much better (in terms of both fun and profit) when there were more degens/gamblers and less nerds.
Essentially what I was saying, without using those exact words to describe them. I think its very nuanced as to why nlhr poker changed, and its not just a huge shift of players considering profitability, I think its more psychological. Just as another poster stated “who would be playing Q9?!?!.” Some people play what is effectively a game to get everything the game offers OTHER than money, whether the feeling of “winning” a hand or “beating” a player in a hand. Some people just play for profit. If you have played long enough you can remember when you realized which player you were and when you realized when the ecosystem shifted and became heavily weighted towards those who wanted to make every poker decision as a function of profitability. It was becoming strategically optimized publicly and those who didn’t see the fun in going down that path mostly quit or changed to a different variant. Now what you have left is a 8-9 handed table where people are literally only raising KJo or better, and coolers needed to move money around, or 5 competent players trying to crush one fish…..which is not what NLHE was when I started playing live around 2005.
Having been in Vegas a few weeks ago, I think it is definitely slower. There are less people no doubt. That said, I think the games are juicier. I think the fish (respectfully said) are willing to lose greater amounts.
It is a K shaped economy.
As for playing Q9 or how no limit should be dead because it should be a battle of the blinds, just know you are technically correct (the worst kind of correct) while being part of the problem.
I know it is out of style nowadays, but there is this concept called implied odds. I understand that it is a meme for players to use implied odds as an excuse to play crap. That said, the concept of implied odds still matters.
There is a significant portion of the poker playing base that is playing for reasons other than money. They are there for social reasons, or for gambling reasons, or whatever. Making money is not the highest priority, at least if they were being 100% honest wih themselves.
In those cases, people playing extremely tight (like folding Q9 in late position) are missing the forest through the trees. Your implied odds are much higher than you realize. You aren't just fighting for the blinds. In fact you are likely playing against some players who are looking to gamble and ultimately do not mind occasionally getting it in bad if they are honest with themselves.
In fact, I would posit that playing tight is destroying the game. Those type of players are not there to sit around and fold for hours until they get a hand to three bet with. They are looking for much more immediate action. By making the games boring for them they are pushing them towards playing blackjack or craps instead.
From threads like this and some youtubes, I figured rooms would be cheap. But they're not. I checked a few dates in the next few months, and the prices were way too high for me. How could they not be cheap? Then I saw this:
Interesting. Makes me wonder if it's worth trying to make Diamond again this year. If things really go south, they could cancel most, or all, of the Diamond benefits.
Rooms from Mid Jan through March are going to be a bit higher, Vegas is having their run of conventions and big sports that use up a bunch of rooms. CES-Concrete Convention-AVN-Superbowl-March Madness. I imagine April until WSOP shouldn't be too bad, I don't gamble much (platinum) and I get comps with Caesars outside of Fri-Sat.
Interesting. Makes me wonder if it's worth trying to make Diamond again this year. If things really go south, they could cancel most, or all, of the Diamond benefits.
A big tell for me was the speed at which a number of casinos recently switched from traditional craps (1.4% house edge) to crapless craps (5.4%).
all I know is I am a very small gambler (like outside of poker less than $600 a trip) and I got comp nights offers for Red Rock, Treasure Island, Fontainebleau and Palms. Palms is just a newbie teaser but the others are not
Having been in Vegas a few weeks ago, I think it is definitely slower. There are less people no doubt.
isn't December and January the slowest time every year?
Yikes, is that on tables, or just the bubble machines?
I've never played crapless craps, guess I better read up on the rules.
Tables. I am not aware of any crapless craps machines yet, but it seems a logical next step.
They could pay 6:5 for 7 on come out roll, similar to odds bets for 6/8. That would reduce house edge to 1.98%. Not holding my breath for that to happen.
there are some crapless bubble machines, some may be at higher limits. There is no 'don't pass' and the payouts are similar. Can't get past a 12 can be the point. No thanks.
Tables. I am not aware of any crapless craps machines yet, but it seems a logical next step.
They could pay 6:5 for 7 on come out roll, similar to odds bets for 6/8. That would reduce house edge to 1.98%. Not holding my breath for that to happen.
I've seen crapless craps on bubble machine on youtube.
No don't pass/don't come bet changes complexion of the game quite a bit.
What makes games like Baccarat and traditional Craps appealing is the appearance of fairness as a player may choose to bet either side.
They could add a don't pass/don't come bet a couple different ways:
-initial bet is lost on 7 come out, otherwise the bet is reduced in half and the other half is returned to the player. That bet would be house edge of 3.12%;
-8% commission for any don't pass/don't come bet paid directly to house. So $100 action would require player to give dealer $108. That would give house edge of 2.82%. Likewise a 7% commission would yield 1.74% house edge.
They could also do goofy stuff like declaring 2 and 12 on come out "no action", refunding bet to player.
I don't want to give them any ideas though. And I doubt players would like any of those methods.
Not to derail more, but crapless craps was initially introduced via trademark and copyright in Vegas (from what some old heads told me), at Vegas world, which is now the Strat.
The entire reason and purpose was to deter big bankroll DP/DC players, and to create less DP/DC players since they would never see those bets being made.
Fast forwarding at one point multiple casinos DID allow a lay bet on the 2,3,11,12. at 7-for-6 or 4-for-3. What happened was large bankroll players were at the table doing this and only paying the vig. Now almost all have stopped allowing a lay because of the All Tall Small bonus bet. Lays on outside would allow a hedge.
Also crapless craps machines are all over.
Yes it is. I haven't played poker in a month or so but last week I stopped by the sports book bar next to the Bellagio poker room and the room was so empty for a Friday night it was scary lol.
Yes it is. I haven't played poker in a month or so but last week I stopped by the sports book bar next to the Bellagio poker room and the room was so empty for a Friday night it was scary lol.
Don't worry. The games running are as juicy as ever according to some here. U only need 1 table to play.
One data point: The Aria poker room was nutz this past Saturday night. I put my name on the 1/3 list around 9pm, with a few names and several call-ins before me. Within minutes, a new game started, and within minutes of that (like, before we dealt a hand?), another game was being called, too. Lists were long, but moving, at least at the lower levels.
One data point: The Aria poker room was nutz this past Saturday night. I put my name on the 1/3 list around 9pm, with a few names and several call-ins before me. Within minutes, a new game started, and within minutes of that (like, before we dealt a hand?), another game was being called, too. Lists were long, but moving, at least at the lower levels.
Yeah, if any poker rooms close, more people will go to Aria, Wynn and Venetian.
Not to derail more, but crapless craps was initially introduced via trademark and copyright in Vegas (from what some old heads told me), at Vegas world, which is now the Strat.The entire reason and purpose was to deter big bankroll DP/DC players, and to create less DP/DC players since they would never see those bets being made.Fast forwarding at one point multiple casinos DID a
IIRC Bob Stupak (who owned Vegas World) brought in crapless craps around the time he had double exposure 21. (I was told David invented crapless craps but that was incorrect) Stupak was continually looking for novelties to attract patrons to his smallish casino, which was neither on the strip nor in downtown, but on that wierd corner of Main and LV. Crapless craps had a similar attraction to double exposure 21, that is "crapless" implying the player is getting the best of it because the shooter can't lose on the first roll.
Similar to double exposure, crapless craps never caught on and the game faded into obscurity until the last few years.
Like 6:5 BJ, crapless craps will likely force out traditional craps. Accountants probably consider a crapless table earning as much as 4 traditional tables. Hence the motivation for removing 4 traditional tables and replacing with 1 (maybe 2) crapless tables. Saving on staff, freeing up space for higher earn games, and forcing value gamblers to play somewhere else, or to play higher house edge games.
Yes it should be the anti-ice protestors will be doing an economic blackout of Las Vegas, no one gambles until we get ice out of Las Vegas
