Is the Las Vegas tourism downturn hitting the poker rooms?
Apparently this is a substantially down year for tourism in Vegas. One would think this would affect the action in the
Over time it makes sense for games to get tighter, as being super tight is unfortunately the correct strategy for high rake, no ante games. And as more people adopt this style the less exciting the games are for the looser gamblers. Promos such as freerolls for number of hours played further encourage people to sit there for hours and play tight
It would be interesting to see experimentation that punishes a super tight style, such as antes. For example a forced ante from the big blind or the button
It would be interesting to see experimentation that punishes a super tight style, such as antes. For example a forced ante from the big blind or the button
David Sklansky once wrote that no-limit with 2 blinds and without antes should be a dead game. The only reason it is not, is that people are playing with "invisible antes" (by entering too many pots with poor hands). Allow me to quote ChatGPT:
- "Without an actual ante to seed the pot, players don’t have enough incentive to enter hands. Recreational players compensate by acting as if there were an ante — an “invisible ante” — which makes them play more hands than optimal."
I am personally a complete poker purist; I find the regular NLH with 2 blinds more than interesting enough, and have no need for Double Board Bomb Pots, Stand-Up Games, or other random extra incentives to win pots. But I do recognize that the game probably have to move slighty in that direction to still make it interesting for the purely recreational players. Having an extra ante or making it a 3-blind game is probably what will be tried out first, if I have to guess.
Over time it makes sense for games to get tighter, as being super tight is unfortunately the correct strategy for high rake, no ante games. And as more people adopt this style the less exciting the games are for the looser gamblers. Promos such as freerolls for number of hours played further encourage people to sit there for hours and play tightIt would be interesting to see ex
the most obvious solution to this is straddled games.
my home room now has 2/3-6, 2/5-10 and 5/10-20 with an optional live straddle
at 2/3 my guess would be that it's only in play 25% of the tables, but it's pretty much always in play at 2/5-10 and maybe 75% of the time at 5/10-20
and PLO is pretty much exclusively 1/2-5 and 5/5-10
Venetian was booming the other weekend, Bellagio/Wynn/Aria is steady as expected, the “less populat” tourney series such as GN’s summer and Orleans recent winter series have been seeing overlays.
Most 1/3 nlhe is so tight in vegas its tough to get repeat customers when they call with KQ/QJ and top pair and see AA/sets so frequently. I see people regularly folding (probably correctly) JT/J9/QT/Q9o in late position nowadays. I remember a time in 1/2-1/3 those hands were calling a 3x-10x raise pre (again probably incorrectly).
Big blind ante is the other obvious solution. Increases the per orbit cost, gives more reason to enter the pot, but does not automatically turn the game into something twice as big.
David Sklansky once wrote that no-limit with 2 blinds and without antes should be a dead game. The only reason it is not, is that people are playing with "invisible antes" (by entering too many pots with poor hands). Allow me to quote ChatGPT:-
hes actually right and hes not the only one who has said this. antes help NLH a lot. its hte reason stud has had them since scratch lol
Venetian was booming the other weekend, Bellagio/Wynn/Aria is steady as expected, the “less populat” tourney series such as GN’s summer and Orleans recent winter series have been seeing overlays.Most 1/3 nlhe is so tight in vegas its tough to get repeat customers when they call with KQ/QJ and top pair and see AA/sets so frequently. I see people regularly folding (probably corr
that has to be a bad game that people are folding those hands in LP. that cant be the pop norm
Over time it makes sense for games to get tighter, as being super tight is unfortunately the correct strategy for high rake, no ante games. And as more people adopt this style the less exciting the games are for the looser gamblers. Promos such as freerolls for number of hours played further encourage people to sit there for hours and play tightIt would be interesting to see ex
Maybe. More likely is a lot of those types wouldn't play. They would either find games that didn't have antes, or quit coming to Vegas.
Back from a week of WPT and Venetian deep stack. Arrived the last weekend of rodeo and it was packed. The following weekend was surprisingly very busy. That’s usually a dead time of year but it seemed busier than last year.
I only played a few hours of cash at Venetian. Game played small. 3/5 at Venetian had a lot of $500 buy ins. On break, I’d look around at 1/2 2/3 or whatever they run and it was mostly sub $200 stacks and maybe one or two 600-700 stacks. I’m spoiled by the games in the South. 1/2 here (really 1/2/10) plays so much bigger than 3/5 at Venetian. That room is really nice though and the staff was great. Wynn and Venetian blow the WSOP away.
Overall, the death of Vegas seems to be greatly exaggerated. Except Fontainebleau, that place is dead. I’m pretty sure all of the tournaments easily surpassed all of the guarantees.
that has to be a bad game that people are folding those hands in LP. that cant be the pop norm
I should have said “folding these hands to a min raise”, because I play outside of busy times like Rodeo/NYE/Superbowl/March Madness, I see a table of majority promo grinder (especially with hourly rakeback becoming very popular and spreading in Vegas). If its not a hand that can make high hand or BBJ the Q9-J9o are getting open folded or limped at best folded plenty to a 3x raise.
And as said above, having played private and casinos all over the country the 2/5-3/5 in vegas plays like a 1/3 most places, and the 1/3 is just nitfest
yes
Says the person who doesn’t know Ballys is now Horseshoe and Flamingo closed its room years ago.
I should have said “folding these hands to a min raise”, because I play outside of busy times like Rodeo/NYE/Superbowl/March Madness, I see a table of majority promo grinder (especially with hourly rakeback becoming very popular and spreading in Vegas). If its not a hand that can make high hand or BBJ
damn.
that sucks bt not sure if poker just gotten better or time depending.
I always read threads on reddit about 1/3 which room is best which room is best.
i always feel like it just depends and that most the 1-3 games in vegas at least, all play the same, if youre a really good player you'll beat it but if youre average only, youre goign to be breakeven .
i have had others say it really varies by room. i always felt it just plays the same and depends on tiem and say
I only played a few hours of cash at Venetian. Game played small. 3/5 at Venetian had a lot of $500 buy ins. On break, I'd look around at 1/2 2/3 or whatever they run and it was mostly sub $200 stacks and maybe one or two 600-700 stacks.
I played like 6 sessions of Venetian 2/3 in 2025 and the game was never small. when I bought in for $400 I was one of the shortest. usually had 3 tables running and they were all similar
the people saying low stakes poker sucks in vegas. I don't know if that's true or not but I feel what is true is that within the last 5 years with texas poker and FL poker boomed a bit pre covid and post covid, it just made other options for other low-med stakes pretty good so its not ALL concentrated in certain regions like it used to be.
I consider myself a solid to very good low stakes player.
I have no illusions of moving up and making it a career,
but I am profitable and I still enjoy the rush of often pulling $500 to $1000 in profit from my weekend Friday and Saturday sessions.
That said, I dont get the complaints about low-level Vegas tables.
I always go in June, during the WSOP so with that said . . .
Let's look at the positives
1) free drinks! You can try every weird drink you can think of,
have one or two and loosen up a bit and forget about your real life back home
I pick a Drink of the Day and drink those all day. Tequila Lemonade Day, Jager Day (yes, I sip jager like all Men of Culture do), Double Rum and Coke Day, White Russian Day when I want people to think I'm soft etc.)
2) Eye candy, and eye poison,
if you go to the right rooms and sit at the right tables,
the people-watching is unmatched, from stone-cold hotties,
to the worst tattoos you could never have imagined
3) The energy of rooms like Caesar's (in the normal spot by the sports book)
and Horseshoe knowing the WSOP legends are under the same roof
or Bellagio seeing those crazy limit stacks or being near Bobby's Room
and taking a leak next to Ivey or Berkey? (yes, I have had that happen, not braggin' just sayin)
4) meeting people from literally all over the planet.
Few things are more fun than sitting next to a random white dude for an hour
and then he finally speaks and you realize, they're from another continent!
5) The tables with all the hated regs make it the safest poker you'll ever play,
being the most fundamentally sound AND most aggressive player at a tight table is the best possible situation.
when you are willing and able to donk bet your draws into a table full of Fit or Fold types it's like they're playing face up
6) It's low stakes, so you shouldnt be emotionally devastated at a suck out happening
and can laugh it off and rebuy if the table is good or table change to a more fun table
Given all these things, if you cant have fun at a low stakes Vegas table, especially during the WSOP
the problem is either you're a miserable person, or you're an action junkie and are afraid to play 5-10 or higher.
Long live the low stakes Vegas tables during the WSOP
(this does not apply to the silent, morgue-like atmospheres of the higher end rooms, gimmie the Rooms of the People.
I should have said “folding these hands to a min raise”, because I play outside of busy times like Rodeo/NYE/Superbowl/March Madness, I see a table of majority promo grinder (especially with hourly rakeback becoming very popular and spreading in Vegas). If its not a hand that can make high hand or BBJ the Q9-J9o are getting open folded or limped at best folded plenty to a 3x ra
I must be confused, who in the world plays Q9o ever?
At best, you miss and can take down a raggedy flop with a cbet
If you make any pair, make a decent bet and are called, you're outkicked
Your odds of 2 pair on the flop are literally 2%
Your odds of a straight or flush by the river are almost 0%
If you play Q9o, you're an idiot or action junkie, but that's pretty much the same thing
If you're at a table where people call or bet pre with Q9o you're at a table of idiots who are there to gamble and not play poker
I mean, I guess you want them to play that hand, but I wouldnt play Q9o with free money
Telling me I'm a nit for this belief tells me you think poker is just a game of "chicken" where your actions supposedly equal your manhood
and not a game of math and psychology, and I'm too old to be lured into being stupid enough to defend some imagined pride or image
Back from a week of WPT and Venetian deep stack. Arrived the last weekend of rodeo and it was packed. The following weekend was surprisingly very busy. That's usually a dead time of year but it seemed busier than last year. I only played a few hours of cash at Venetian. Game played small. 3/5 at Venetian had a lot of $500 buy ins. On break, I'd look around at 1/2 2/3 or w
I believe that Fontainebleau investors spent billions and one month after opening will never recover from a $21 plate of nachos
And I for one, who hates to take joy in others' mistakes or pain, make an exception for these people
Those who insisted on charging $24 for 6 nachos . . . there are no words (or at least words I want to type)
Billions of dollars of time and effort destroyed in one tweet exposing the most mind-boggling absurd and embarrassing effort to rob their guests
I believe that Fontainebleau investors spent billions and one month after opening will never recover from a $21 plate of nachos And I for one, who hates to take joy in others' mistakes or pain, make an exception for these peopleThose who insisted on charging $24 for 6 nachos . . . there are no words (or at least words I want to type)Billions of dollars of time and effort destr
The whole Strip is in on the effort to rob their guests. Especially charging their room guests for parking. How is parking not covered by the room resort fee?
The Strip is saying that it doesn't care if the tourism downturn continues.
The whole Strip is in on the effort to rob their guests. Especially charging their room guests for parking. How is parking not covered by the room resort fee?
The Strip is saying that it doesn't care if the tourism downturn continues.
Yup, you could be in for 80 bucks a night before you even get to your room.
Casinos don't care about broke 1/3 poker players that grind hours for free drinks.
Yes, there's less tourists but the gaming revenue is up and clubs were still packed even for a slow month like December.
TLDR, less broke tourists that walk around not spending money but more whales gambling.
Vegas is very much alive lol.
And yes, I live here and I'm on the strip every weekend.
I believe that Fontainebleau investors spent billions and one month after opening will never recover from a $21 plate of nachos And I for one, who hates to take joy in others' mistakes or pain, make an exception for these peopleThose who insisted on charging $24 for 6 nachos . . . there are no words (or at least words I want to type)Billions of dollars of time and effort destr
To be fair the place was an empty money pit run my imbeciles before that ever happened.
if vegas has gotten as bad and continues to be as bad as the internet and peopl e say it is ( i wouldnt know I assume it def tilts more to agree with what people are saying)
if the trend continues and its true downturns keep happening than obv in 2 -3 years lots of properties and strip itself with adjust and kinda "cave in" in a sense at some point
The particular era of casino/private holdem that I came up in Q9-J9-T9 were shown down quite a bit as winners…things obviously changed with internet and solvers etc.
The particular era of casino/private holdem that I came up in Q9-J9-T9 were shown down quite a bit as winners…things obviously changed with internet and solvers etc.
Poker was much better (in terms of both fun and profit) when there were more degens/gamblers and less nerds.
