GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
AIM. I think we need to put out an ad for someone that is willing to fact check FG. It will be a full time job. Everything will come with a disclaimer.
lol i dont read every post itt but this was hilarious
if u need me to see something send a PM
lol i dont read every post itt but this was hilarious
if u need me to see something send a PM
I was more accurate than originally thought because the data shows that MJ would face less height at 4 of 5 positions in today's game, not just SG like I originally said.
So why are you guys pretending? Anatta's original issue was the height of Jordan's defenders, and recent posts proved they were taller at 4 of 5 positions in his era.
So I was right - you guys were wrong.. Full stop.. Quit the acting and pretending .. People can read and see that you guys were wrong about player heights.
Ultimately, how can you guys watch someone lose over and over, and then turn around and say they're the best ever?.. It's absurd... Jordan basically never lost once he got help, while Lebron was a perennial loser with many bad losses.
So their records once they got help is the difference, along with Lebron simply dominating LESS (barely averaging 25 ppg much of the time and needing equal scoring partners to attract equal defensive attention, aka not carrying scoring load/defeating max defensive attention like Mike)
Even if people accept MJ would face less height in today's game, he would face way less talent/knowledge in the 1990s compared to today which will cover that.
In reverse, Tacko Fall is 16 inches or so taller than Gary Payton, not sure which one would be tougher to score on though.
Also, fairly common knowledge is players were measured with shoes on in the 90s. Not anymore.Reggie 6-7 Hali - 6-5
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It's a weird thing to care about anyway. It means literally nothing when you are talking about an inch.
Even if people accept MJ would face less height in today's game, he would face way less talent/knowledge in the 1990s compared to today which will cover that.
In reverse, Tacko Fall is 16 inches or so taller than Gary Payton, not sure which one would be tougher to score on though.
So we've established that Jordan faced more length in his era, aka myth destroyed - we're getting somewhere.
And the consensus is that Jordan would have a tougher time defensively in today's game (like everyone else), but average 40-50 offensively and have an easy time on offense.
Ty Lue says that Jordan would beat today's players on IQ alone... The triangle was the most complicated offense ever that today's players can't run, while today's offenses are basic drive-and-kick designed to let Jordan dominate the ball and pad his stats.
And again, kindergarten teams spam threes, along with junior high and HS teams, aka anyone can do it.. It requires much less IQ to play in a hands-off, spaced out beginner format where teammates are spacing the floor for you, than an unspaced court that allows physicality (advanced format).
Btw, you guys say that Jordan would shoot threes poorly at today volumes, but he never did in his era - you're saying he would do something that he never did over a big sample size - he always shot well when he decided to shoot threes and have volume (3+ attempts)... Otoh, today's players like Lebron, Giannis, Luka, etc have many series or seasons of shooting threes poorly - again, Jordan never shot poorly at today's volumes in any series or season - regular line only.
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MJ was basically undefeated once he got help, while Lebron was a perennial loser when he got help:
Preseason Favorites
Jordan...... 6-0
Lebron..... 4-4
1 or 2 seeds
Jordan..... 6-0
Lebron.... 4-5
Finals Teams
Jordan..... 6-0
Lebron.... 4-6
All-Star Teammates
Jordan...... 6-2
Lebron..... 4-8
There's no shoe thing
Previous eras were simply taller
Case closed.. you lost and fell for a fraud
And you never played ball, so don't say dumb stuff like "1 inch doesn't make a difference". You sound clueless af
You also never addressed the 2 things that make Lebron inferior.. Specifically, Lebron was a perennial loser WITH HELP (shown above), while Jordan was basically unbeatable the instant he got help.. The 2 reasons that Lebron lost so much with great rosters is because 1) he didn't dominate compared to Jordan with barely 25 ppg most seasons or series, and 2) his skillset employs a bad brand of ball that produces weak chemistry and craters teammates (turns everyone into spot-up shooter)...
Look at how Lebron is DESTROYING reaves' career and destroying the Lakers!!!.. They're clearly better without him and letting the All-NBA duo of Luka/Reaves blossom and develop.. This is obvious - they should cut or waive Lebron because he's a cancer
Reaves didn't play yesterday.
Doncic shot 6-25 and 2-14 on 3's
The Lakers shot 7-37 on 3's
In crunch time it was Lebron who scored. He was +8 for the game and the Lakers beat a good team on the road. Luka had the ball but couldn't get a shot off and flung the ball desperately to LeBron.
Lakers are 11-5 without Lebron, and now 7-2 with him. And this is 41 year old version of LeBron. What a cancer.
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There's no shoe thing
Previous eras were simply taller
Case closed.. you lost and fell for a fraud
And you never played ball, so don't say dumb stuff like "1 inch doesn't make a difference". You sound clueless af
Fact check
You can literally see the drop off in the graph.
I mean you do raise a good point though. 1 inch is a lot. Pippen being one inch taller than MJ made him a significantly better defender.
Fact check You can literally see the drop off in the graph.I mean you do raise a good point though. 1 inch is a lot. Pippen being one inch taller than MJ made him a significantly better defender.
There are many sources of measurements and the "many chose to" verbage without specificity wreaks of BS and modern reporting.
Ultimately, it's common knowledge and well-documented that the 80's and 90's were taller than today and recent years.
So be thankful that you learned something real today - aka MJ faced more length in his era than he would today, in addition to facing less spacing and more physicality.. These are the primary reasons why the consensus is that MJ would average 40-50 today.
Ultimately, how can you guys watch someone lose over and over, and then say they're the best ever??
When MJ got help, he mostly won every year, while Lebron mostly lost every year..
What more proof is needed than that??. And Lebron increases the sample/proof each year with another horrible loss despite star teammates, and even top 5 guys (Wade, Luka, AD, and many said Love was top 5 prior to joining Lebron - the advanced stats said he was top 3).
Ultimately, MJ won 6 chips in 8 years after getting a star teammate, while Lebron went 1 for 6 with AD, and 1 for 4 with Love or Wade (except the Allen miracle).. He mostly lost with every cast, and by record margins or surprise.. At no point was he anywhere near a 3-peat, 70 wins, or dynasty regardless of cast, aka objectively inferior to MJ
Jordan also learned the high ball movement style that the Warriors, Spurs and Nuggets used to beat Lebron... Lebron has a 17-36 playoff record against these 3 opponents, and their ball movement is exactly the brand that Jordan won 6 titles with, and his off-ball skillset suited.. So Jordan would be another Jokic/Duncan/Curry and blowing the doors off Lebron's teams.
Jordan couldn't win with Gervin that was a huge failure on the Luka level. He also failed to win with Richard Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse. He also failed to win with prime 7th in MVP voting (and 2nd in Dpoy) Pippen.
Jordan couldn't win with Gervin that was a huge failure on the Luka level. He also failed to win with Richard Hamilton and Jerry Stackhouse. He also failed to win with prime 7th in MVP voting (and 2nd in Dpoy) Pippen.
It smacks of desperation to bring up the injury year where Jordan missed 64 games and then Gervin didn't play in the 86' Playoffs.. Jordan simply never played with Gervin.
And Jordan wasn't that good at 40 years old just like Lebron, hence the losing with Hamilton and Stackhouse.. This still wasn't as bad as losing with top 5 guys like AD or Luka and high preseason expectations.. The Wizards met expectation, while Lebron's Lakers were upset multiple times and also lottery as the preseason favorite.
So Jordan was winning nearly every year the instant he got another star, while Lebron was a perennial loser with many star casts and every cast that he ever had in the NBA
Have to play the same silly games as you when you say Lebron couldn't win with Luka. So Jordan being 40 makes his failure not count but LeBron doesn't get the same excuse, what a surprise.
Also, lol @ the triangle being the most complicated offense of all time. It's child play compared to what is run today by the good teams.
And the defense is next level.
It makes the 90s look like the 50s in comparison.
I mean look at the below. Highschool teams play a more complex offense than these two teams. It's so bad. And these are the best two teams.
If anyone wants to die, watch the first 5 minutes of the game.
2017 Warriors would 92 dream team both teams.
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EXHIBIT A
09' Mo outproduced 16' Klay
09' MO......... 2.3 BPM... 0.165 WS.48... 3.1 VORP... 17.2 PER
16' KLAY...... 1.8 BPM... 0.144 WS/48... 2.5 VORP... 18.6 PER
Curry's Warriors were a 1-man team just like the 09' Cavs or 07' Mavs, but he gets robbed of the carry-job because the term "73-win team" implies a stacked team.
]I mean look at the below. Highschool teams play a more complex offense than these two teams. It's so bad. And these are the best two teams
^^^ You aren't talking about player ability anymore
You're talking about x's and o's, aka coaching, and the arguments for Jordan stand regardless of which era had better coaching..
And what you perceive as "sophisticated" is literally SGA scoring on his own for 80% of his buckets... His assisted rate is a pathetic 20%...
It simply isn't offensive sophistication to bring the ball up and score on your own for 80% of your buckets - this ball-dominance and LACK of sophistication is why OKC has struggled in the playoffs, such as barely beating an all-time weak Finals opponent or Joker's 1-man team..
This ball-dominance is also why today's era can't produce dynasties - every dynasty is from prior eras and known for great ball movement - they would destroy today's ball-dominance and non-dynasties/non-great-teams.. We already know that there's never been a primary ballhandler that was 1st option for the best basketball, aka dynasty (3 in 5), or dominant title run (1 loss average per round, 4 losses max).
If anyone wants to die, watch the first 5 minutes of the game.
2017 Warriors would 92 dream team both teams.
You lack sufficient understanding of basketball to realize that the game you cherry-picked reflects a different set of rules and spacing strategy, and therefore doesn't reflect the players themselves.
Furthermore, we all know that Lebron is 1-3 in the playoffs vs the Warriors, but if he was 2-2 and then 2-1 against the Spurs, no one would think these opponents were dynasties - the only reason anyone thinks Lebron's opponents are so good is because he lost to them so many times, thereby creating the dynasties..
So cry me a river about the Warriors - they came out of nowhere in 2015 and were literally a 1-man team until KD arrived (see Exhibit A above)
After carrying Klay to 67 and 73 wins, Curry won with WIGGINS and POOLE.
The point is that ball movement wins with less, and a great jumpshooter's skillset allows that, aka Curry, Jordan.. Meanwhile, high-scoring, high assist players like Lebron or Luka (ball-dominators) haven't had elite ball movement in 35+ seasons combined..
Since this crappier brand of ball needs more help and can't develop young players (imposes spot-up roles), it can't win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player like the ball movement of Curry or Jordan (jumpshooters).
You were wrong though because Gervin didn't play, while Luka actually played and averaged 30 when Lebron was upset in the 1st Round.
Getting upset in the 1st Round is the definition of failure, let alone with a 30 ppg teammate carrying you.. Lebron lost via upset to three different 1-star teams (Mavs, Magic, TWolves).
Ultimately, the difference between Lebron and Jordan is that when they both got "help", Jordan mostly won titles and Lebron mostly lost.. Lebron has many catastrophic losses with help and Jordan doesn't.. That's how we know that Jordan is far superior to Lebron, even without considering Jordan's superior rate stats and accolade, or the eye test showing his superior talent for the game of basketball.
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List of BAD FITS with Lebron (players that played far below capacity/career highs alongside him:
Hughes
Jamison
Bosh
Love
IT
Ingram
Kuzma
Westbrook
Reaves
Dinwiddie
many more
Bad fits with Jordan:
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Great jumpshooters/off-ball players don't have bad fits..
Ultimately, people don't realize the vastly superior instinct, athleticism and skill required to score elite amounts without dribbling much - that's what separates Jordan from SGA, Luka, Lebron, etc...
By not dominating the ball (similar to Curry or Duncan), Jordan's game allowed the best brands of ball and chemistry that could win titles and even dynasties with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player (organically)
LeBron, as FG says, has been terrible this year.
LeBron - 20/7/5, 19.2 PER, 0.106 WS/48, 3.1 BPM
Jordan's Wizard years - 21/6/4, 19.9 PER, 0.89 WS/48, 2.3 BPM
Still better than MJ. And he's 2-3 years older.
