Do you believe in God?
Tell me people do you believe in God?
When you are "held hostage by Iron Age literature":
Q: Do you believe a command to kill witches was given by an omniscient god?
A: (Subconscious speaking) Well, unfortunately yes, because this is the religion sold in my culture and it's indoctrinated and duped me.
"Everything is energy ... and energy can never be created or destroyed."
The need for the "first mover" god is annulled by this simple reality. No need for a first cause when by definition it is eternal. And, voila, there is no need for a god showing up in Iron Age days giving commands to kill witches and kill homosexuals and kill unruly children and stone unfaithful women, with its barbaric inventors claiming they are His chosen people commanded to genocide neighboring peoples.
The reality principle, not the religious principle ... is the bearer of light.
"Everything is energy ... and energy can never be created or destroyed." The need for the "first mover" god is annulled by this simple reality. No need for a first cause when by definition it is eternal. And, voila, there is no need for a god showing up in Iron Age days giving commands to kill witches and kill homosexuals and kill unruly children and stone unfaithful women, wit
How do you know that everything is energy?
And how do you know that energy can never be created or destroyed?
Do you know these things for certain?
How do you know that everything is energy?
And how do you know that energy can never be created or destroyed?
Do you know these things for certain?
Do you need to turn science and the facts of reality on their ear to argue for your beliefs? Obviously, yes.
These are some of the fundamental principles of physics. If you need to overrule that to smuggle in the god that's for killing witches, knock yourself out.
Do you need to turn science and the facts of reality on their ear to argue for your beliefs? Obviously, yes.
These are some of the fundamental principles of physics. If you need to overrule that to smuggle in the god that's for killing witches, knock yourself out.
Why should God be constrained by the rules of physics?
The First Mover argument has this point baked in; if God is the First Mover, then physics itself, space itself, time itself, is contingent on God; God is not within them nor constrained by them, but instead they are creations at His hand.
If this is the case, then it would make little sense for Him to be beholden to them.
What you're espousing is referred to as a materialist metaphysics - the idea that only the physical world exists.
I recommend a google - you'll find that even among atheistic philosophers, there's little solid agreement that
materialism is a valid, complete system; it has some huge holes in it, notably about consciousness.
Do you need to turn science and the facts of reality on their ear to argue for your beliefs? Obviously, yes.
These are some of the fundamental principles of physics. If you need to overrule that to smuggle in the god that's for killing witches, knock yourself out.
You didn't really answer my question.
I'll rephrase:
How do you know that our current scientific understanding of energy is correct?
Are you certain that our current understanding is correct?
You didn't really answer my question.
I'll rephrase:
How do you know that our current scientific understanding of energy is correct?
Are you certain that our current understanding is correct?
Do you claim to know for certain that of all the thousands of gods created by man, that the story you fell for is true?
Why should God be constrained by the rules of physics?The First Mover argument has this point baked in; if God is the First Mover, then physics itself, space itself, time itself, is contingent on God; God is not within them nor constrained by them, but instead they are creations at His hand.If this is the case, then it would make little sense for Him to be beholden to them.What
I'm not espousing materialist metaphysics at all. You just assumed that because, in your thinking, either you are in my religion or you are a materialist/non-spiritualist. This reveals your indoctrination in the system you are in. At some level, the most important one, you can't fathom that there are many, many spiritual systems that do not involve worshipping a witch killing, genocidal god from a barbaric 1st Century culture ... and they are just as, or far more, valid than the one you are invested in. Try Bernardo Kastrup. Or something from the 20th Century at least. Of course you aren't going to change your beliefs, but maybe you can stop making the indoctrinated "You are in my system or you are a materialist" blind mistake.
I'm not espousing materialist metaphysics at all. You just assumed that because, in your thinking, either you are in my religion or you are a materialist/non-spiritualist. This reveals your indoctrination in the system you are in. At some level, the most important one, you can't fathom that there are many, many spiritual systems that do not involve worshipping a witch killing,
If you don't consider yourself to have materialist metaphysics, I'd be interested in hearing what your metaphysical views are.
I apologise if I've misconstrued you; however, I certainly feel you've misconstrued me - I am not saying "You're either Christian or a materialist."
Of course many other systems, such as deism, animism and pretty much any world religions, do exist and are not materialist.
However, you did express a sentiment indicating that God would need to be beholden to the rules of physics - that is a materialist metaphysical viewpoint.
I am not saying that the rules of physics are sacrosanct, but that you don't get to just overrule them with a fairy tale. Instead, to have any credence, one must show the evidence that the tale is true and not just another religious tale.
I don't claim to have solved the metaphysics of the cosmos, as, say, the "Jesus did it" crew does. I lean toward the David Bohm metaphysics of implicate/explicate order, the quantum fields as "god," an arrangement of quantum fields and perception as creating a seeming physical reality, a highly spiritual human consciousness that is not supernatural but natural. I'll post some details on metaphysical models soon.
I am not saying that the rules of physics are sacrosanct, but that you don't get to just overrule them with a fairy tale. Instead, to have any credence, one must show the evidence that the tale is true and not just another religious tale. I don't claim to have solved the metaphysics of the cosmos, as, say, the "Jesus did it" crew does. I lean toward the David Bohm metaphysics o
I think I getcha. Well, to be fair, the view of metaphysics that espouses God being outside of time and space isn't restricted to the CTG (Catholic Triune God). Aquinas himself said as much. The "fairy tale" portion of the equation isn't required; you can be a deist and follow the same metaphysics.
Regarding evidence: well, I've said most of this already; don't wanna go in circles here. I think there's strong evidence indicating that Catholicism is true. You may disagree. On this, there's very little either of us can say to change the other's mind; especially because each of us will have personal, ineffable experiences that lean us one way or another.
Kind of like poker again, huh? Informational advantage lies in knowing things the other does not. We each gotta decide whether Christians got air or nuts.
I think they've got the nuts.
There are many laws in this universe; that is what God should be considered to be, and is not a matter of belief.
People who believe in God, refer to religious feelings.
Do you claim to know for certain that of all the thousands of gods created by man, that the story you fell for is true?
You just committed the Complex Question Fallacy.
Do you know what that fallacy is? If not, please google it so we can have a productive conversation.
Do you even know what logical fallacies are? If not, I'd be thrilled and delighted to provide a link for you to learn about them.
Please let me know!
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
You just committed the Complex Question Fallacy.
Do you know what that fallacy is? If not, please google it so we can have a productive conversation.
Do you even know what logical fallacies are? If not, I'd be thrilled and delighted to provide a link for you to learn about them.
Please let me know!
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
Oh, you're so honest, and so sincere.
I was accosted by a homeless lady asking for a dollar coming out of McDonald's today. I hesitated then laid $10 liquid cash on her, at which time she said: "Bless you. God is going to save you. 32 is your number and my name is Sara." I said she was more than welcome and I hope it helps, and as I was walking away she was a constant stream of mumbling and jabbering as can be the tendency of many in such plights.
So I got that going for me. I'm #32 at the Pearly Gates, or something like that. If one would just stop and think of the billions of zany religious ideas and takes out there -- that aren't crazy exceptions but ARE THE RULE -- they might do a double take about what is going on with religion. You know, and quit deciding between the religions ... and just opt out and start following a gnostic spiritual path uncorrupted by such things. It's about a personal path, not a prescribed doctrine.
The religions can work within that framework, but they rarely do. Instead, they are a bypassing of it. So that the quest for meaning -- claimed bogusly by religions as their exclusive domain -- is in fact an impediment to realizing it.
Cults: A Shared Fantasy
The leader and the led engage in a dance of "explaining" life, thus medicating their issues. We all have them -- issues, conflicts, anxieties, etc. -- and it is tempting to assume a power role or to cling to another's power role who claims to have the answers. The illusion provided by the cult is an addictive trauma bond. For as long as the trauma is working underneath to separate the personality from experiencing its actual essence, from inhabiting the seat of consciousness directly, an all consuming fantasy is the drug that soothes it.
The leader, say Koresh, seeks the grandiose worth and identity of being god almighty's messenger. The anxiety ridden minions of the cult, mesmerized and bamboozled by this, solve identity needs by submerging themselves in the doctrine. It hardly matters what the doctrine is, as the thousands of cults and their bloated leaders demonstrate.
I see that god helped several teams win this past weekend. You know, while millions suffered and starved terribly. It just points up the extremely myopic and egocentric way that religion is used by human beings. Once one makes this realization, religion never looks the same. It begins to look like a defense mechanism held to ward off the uncertainties and anxieties of living and coping. And so there are untold amounts of religions devised by different cultures, and adopted by individuals as some kind of personal ticket and ultimate balm for existence.
It is what it is. As for one of the stories being actually true, just-so stories don't really work like that.
I see that god helped several teams win this past weekend. You know, while millions suffered and starved terribly. It just points up the extremely myopic and egocentric way that religion is used by human beings. Once one makes this realization, religion never looks the same. It begins to look like a defense mechanism held to ward off the uncertainties and anxieties of living an
I think people are far too keen to blame God for things that are humanity's fault.
The fact we have millions starving and suffering terribly is largely down to the fact that're all selfish, egocentric and greedy. In short, sinful.
Not particularly God's fault, is it?
I think people are far too keen to blame God for things that are humanity's fault.
The fact we have millions starving and suffering terribly is largely down to the fact that're all selfish, egocentric and greedy. In short, sinful.
Not particularly God's fault, is it?
And while being selfish, egocentric and greedy ... they are nearly all religious, right?? What, then, is being religious all about actually?
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And while being selfish, egocentric and greedy ... they are nearly all religious, right?? What, then, is being religious all about actually?
Religion is simply a manifestation of innate survival impulses. Individual survival is enhanced via belonging to a cohesive tribe. Religion provides the tribal behavioral rulebook and the basis for the that rulebook because the rules are attributed to God's edict.
It's not all that complicated.
Religion is simply a manifestation of innate survival impulses. Individual survival is enhanced via belonging to a cohesive tribe. Religion provides the tribal behavioral rulebook and the basis for the that rulebook because the rules are attributed to God's edict.
It's not all that complicated.
And so like I say, don't mistake religion for metaphysics. Nearly all of the religious do. That's the key mistake that makes them 1st Century superstitious magic believers, and which sacrifices decency and morality to barbaric ignorance of those times.
