Collusion at Final Table of Millionaire Maker!
Yaginuma vs Carroll. Carroll enters final table with 10 to 1 chip lead, Yaginuma gets $1 million dollar bonus from Club
If they talk about it while a third player was still in, is that sufficient to call it collusion or do you still have to show that they did more than just talk?
That is how our legal system works, one hires lawyers to advocate on one’s behalf…though if the WSOP does DQ them I would guess it would eat most of their extra profit from the WSOP to get it back and def losing on the EV since they lose in court a non zero amount t of time.
Lol ok
They have zero chance to win if they take the fifth with relaxed standard. So in your terms they are going to post the big blind and ante (court costs) and open muck.
Only chance to win is to lie under oath
An attorney was saying last night that he thinks they are probably going to get paid and they are making them sweat and do due diligence before HU. But if they don’t and DQ they are cooked.
Article headline on pokernews says no bracelet awarded as the punishment, although the actual link is dead for me right now
Ok so they awarded no bracelet and they are splitting 1st and 2nd money 50/50. I am guessing they still paid them out to avoid a lawsuit and the bracelet is somehow legally WSOP's and they choose whether to award it or not.
I kinda like the decision tbh.
Those two guys are ecstatic. Worked out well for them. Rules will change so the next guys won’t be able to do it and keep the money.
The most shocking part of this whole thing is that apparently some people actually think that Joe Stapleton is good at commentating?
all their friends are on X saying they both got a lifetime ban from all Caesars properties
The most shocking part of this whole thing is that apparently some people actually think that Joe Stapelton is good at commenting?
guilty :p
I think they should both be DQd but I don't really care that much
Revoking the bracelet at least sets some kind of precedent to not do this kind of thing again
Wonder what WPT will pay, with no official winner? 500,000? Maybe zero for looking better and saving a dime.
100,000 was the expected WPT bonus value when going HU.
The most shocking part of this whole thing is that apparently some people actually think that Joe Stapelton is good at commenting?
Lol. God, he is hilariously unfunny. Dunno how he continues to get on these jobs.
I’m interested in how these guys negotiated the deal. Was it strictly about the extra milly, or did they include the WSOP payouts…
The guy who ‘won’ shouldn’t have offered much more than 1st place prize money, so like $300k out of the $1m, but I’m guessing it was 50/50, unless the ‘winner’ is an idiot.
Also I heard there's talk of lifetime ban for the players and I totally disagree with that given the circumstances
They should be DQ'd from this event but allowed to play further events since this is such an unprecedented situation
WSOP would lose big time if adjudicated. When the two players reached heads-up, they locked up 1st and 2nd place money between them. It would be a long road for WSOP to try to deny payment. Maybe they combine 1st and 2nd place money and equally distribute it 50/50 and withhold or negate the actual bracelet win.
Funny, it’s exactly what I said could happen 3 days ago.
Lol. God, he is hilariously unfunny. Dunno how he continues to get on these jobs.I’m interested in how these guys negotiated the deal. Was it strictly about the extra milly, or did they include the WSOP payouts…The guy who ‘won’ shouldn’t have offered much more than 1st place prize money, so like $300k out of the $1m, but I’m guessing it was 50/50, unless the ‘winner’ is an
I thought it was likely Carroll was getting around 1.8-1.9 total and Yagi 1.3-1.4 and the bracelet. I don’t think this should change the amounts. Carroll gave up a bracelet most likely. Will be interesting if there is some tension over the amounts now.
I thought it was likely Carroll was getting around 1.8-1.9 total and Yagi 1.3-1.4 and the bracelet. I don’t think this should change the amounts. Carroll gave up a bracelet most likely. Will be interesting if there is some tension over the amounts now.
I really hope it’s true that they are both banned, they get their money and other scumbags know there could be consequences if they try something similar, it’s really alarming how many pros thought this was no big deal, just shows how many scumbags are in poker.
Wonder what WPT will pay, with no official winner? 500,000? Maybe zero for looking better and saving a dime.
100,000 was the expected WPT bonus value when going HU.
That’s funny I didn’t even think of the angle that the Yag guy is now not officially a winner.
Club wpt golds marketing scheme seems to be “lol memes” so I can see them still offering the payment and playing it up for publicity.
That’s funny I didn’t even think of the angle that the Yag guy is now not officially a winner.
Club wpt golds marketing scheme seems to be “lol memes” so I can see them still offering the payment and playing it up for publicity.
You're probably right but does nothing to build confidence in that brand, damages it further in fact. They continuously double down any chance they get to mock something and it's gonna catch up with them.
Seems pretty obvious cheating though I don't see how any third party player was harmed if it only happened while heads up.
If Yaginuma even mentioned the idea with Carroll before it got to HU, then that is absolute collusion.For the people saying "who cares?", well I was just watching this out of the blue and had no idea about the controversy. After the 766 hand, it was obvious
So few people watch/care outside of already diehard poker players, besides maybe the main event.
So real-time laptop solver team on the rail is ok vis-a-vis “integrity of the game”, but heads-up players making a deal is beyond the pale, got it lol.
So real-time laptop solver team on the rail is ok vis-a-vis “integrity of the game”, but heads-up players making a deal is beyond the pale, got it lol.
Yea, you really got this one wrong. It’s ok, it’s just the internet and you’re TheFly.
Admittedly, I don’t follow this too much anymore, but there’s a difference between Tamayo et al and this, based solely on the fact that I trust Tamayo and Dominik would’ve been more mindful of the rules (that’ve since been changed, so the WSOP basically acknowledged their rules needed updating).
I don’t see any rules getting changed after this (by WSOP).
Not interested in arguing back and forth, but seems like a different situation (in part cause it wasn’t the Main Event).
Quick take. The WSOP rushed this decision, and on balance, got it wrong.
Penalties needed real teeth, which mostly means a reduction in money awarded and bans on future WSOP events for both players involved.
There are far too many 'slippery slope' type issues to assume no other players in the event were harmed by collusion before the tournament reached heads-up.
The WPT brand is kind-of in flux with the recent sale to GG, so the wishy-washy ruling seems more understandable in that context, but deterance still matters, and this sets a poor precedent for player behavior on future events.
"No winner" means WPT doesn't have to award the million dollar prize to Yagimura. Correct?
Would it have been too harsh to return the entry fees to the two-in-question, divide the first/second place money and let it trickle down to the other cashing players?
Thats what I understand as well, the 1 Million bonus is not awarded because there is no winner.
