Collusion at Final Table of Millionaire Maker!
Yaginuma vs Carroll. Carroll enters final table with 10 to 1 chip lead, Yaginuma gets $1 million dollar bonus from Club
No idea what will happen with the $$$ and bracelet but I would be surprised if they are not given at least a long WSOP/Caesars suspension or possible lifetime ban.
They may now pseudo review if there was something shady before the HU, finding there was not, and hand over bracelet and money.
And then peacefully update the TOS until next year, lawyers scrutinizing how the WSOP can stay out of trouble.
Already holding back now is a signal.
They may now pseudo review if there was something shady before the HU, finding there was not, and hand over bracelet and money.
And then peacefully update the TOS until next year, lawyers scrutinizing how the WSOP can stay out of trouble.
Already holding back now is a signal.
PokerNews podcast alluded to this in their reaction episode, citing some inside sources. Even if WSOP had full intentions to pay them out (best case scenario), ultimately it’s Caesars gaming license on the line should they not do their due diligence. And given they no longer even own WSOP, they don’t have a ton of incentive to move this along quickly.
Add in WSOP likely doing their own investigation…this isn’t going to come quick. As someone who works with them a lot, nothing involving lawyers does.
Since someone could interpret pointing this out as potentially defending them, I’ll make my take clear. These guys deserve to be paid. If they aren’t, I’ll throw some money their way to lawyer up. Finally, WSOP needs to implement chopping mechanisms*.
*I like Chad Holloway’s suggestion of leaving a small % of the prize pool still in play so the players have a reason to still play it out for the bracelet.
*I like Chad Holloway’s suggestion of leaving a small % of the prize pool still in play so the players have a reason to still play it out for the bracelet.
This would have done nothing to prevent the situation that occurred.
Apologies, I meant it in regard of one company allowing a promo to affect another in addition to the result of the tourney being affected as a result of their actions.
I am not a fan of chops but do understand it is done and tbf how can it be policed even if not allowed so I prefer if it is known that a deal has been made providing the condition that others mentioned about something being left to play for and the trophy, bracelet or whatever it maybe is still up for contest.
WPT should be investing in their software which many have already said is not fit for purpose and why promote something so broken this hard?
I don't understand people's beef here. Tamayo rightfully should have been DQed for multiple rules violations. This situation is absurd because it's impossible to prove intent without an admission of guilt. I certainly won't touch a WSOP product until these winners are paid. I don't expect a single person to, but we should all boycott them. They give certain pros special rules a
Come play at the WSOP. Pros can commit felonies against amateurs. Every known cheater and scammer under the sun is welcomed with open arms. Maybe you'll see some of your favorite players like Chris Ferguson, Hawkins or Men The Master. But if you game an outside promo we might not pay you for winning a tournament.
Grunching, so apologies if it’s been disproven/covered, but I agree that it’s not an issue if nothing suspect happened prior to headsup, but if it was 3-handed (or 4, 5, 6, etc) and I knew that if I got HU with a guy who’d get an extra milly we could split up if we got there, then I might play some hands differently to try to get there, especially if I were the CL with chips to risk, or thought I had a substantial edge over the field and enough play to realize it…
I think that’s where it gets sketchy.
And I dunno if the dude who had the bonus knew any of the other FT players, but you’d have to look at pretty much all the hands, even those who didn’t make it to HU, if they thought they could do a deal with the winner who got the bonus.
Seems pretty obvious cheating though I don't see how any third party player was harmed if it only happened while heads up.
If Yaginuma even mentioned the idea with Carroll before it got to HU, then that is absolute collusion.
For the people saying "who cares?", well I was just watching this out of the blue and had no idea about the controversy. After the 766 hand, it was obvious something was going on, but I couldn't figure out why you would collude HU. So I decided to check to see if there was a thread here and lo and behold.
I'm glad I checked for this thread because I would have been really pissed if I watched an epic 12-1 chiplead comeback and then found out it was all fake. Just like I'd be pissed if I watched an epic sports comeback and found out later it was fixed.
The reason WSOP is so huge is because it's entertainment, which pulls in money and pulls in casual players to donate their chips to the pros. You really don't want to tarnish the entertainment product and kill the golden goose.
Carroll would have been better off just standing up and walking away from the table as soon as they were heads up and never coming back.
Nothing WSOP could have done except deal the cards and blind him out.
Carroll would have been better off just standing up and walking away from the table as soon as they were heads up and never coming back.
Nothing WSOP could have done except deal the cards and blind him out.
Would have taken way longer and been far more obvious. Worst idea ever.
Sorry guys, just tested positive for Covid, gotta self-quarantine. Congrats to the winner, really wanted to close this one out.
If Yaginuma even mentioned the idea with Carroll before it got to HU, then that is absolute collusion.For the people saying "who cares?", well I was just watching this out of the blue and had no idea about the controversy. After the 766 hand, it was obvious something was going on, but I couldn't figure out why you would collude HU. So I decided to check to see if there was a t
Well they are not some paid entertainers whos job is to entertain u and other spectators. They are players who bought in with their own or staked money and their main goal is to make a profit.
Most here would have done the same with so much money on the line, can't tell me otherwise. U obv not because ur main focus in this situation would be what people on stream think and how to protect the integrity of the WSOP brand.
Well they are not some paid entertainers whos job is to entertain u and other spectators. They are players who bought in with their own or staked money and their main goal is to make a profit.Most here would have done the same with so much money on the line, can't tell me otherwise. U obv not because ur main focus in this situation would be what people on stream think and how t
If I knew it was within the WSOP rules, I would have absolutely have done it. If not, I would be too risk adverse on a million dollars. I wouldn’t have worried too much about the WPT. I feel they are obligated to pay if you win the tournament based on the rules of that tournament.
Well they are not some paid entertainers whos job is to entertain u and other spectators. They are players who bought in with their own or staked money and their main goal is to make a profit.Most here would have done the same with so much money on the line, can't tell me otherwise. U obv not because ur main focus in this situation would be what people on stream think and how t
Lol I wouldn’t have done it. Especially Carroll, best case he has to look like Worm losing at trust fund kids house. Worst case is sweat he has going now. Caesars banned a guy for taking free sandwiches outside of Kings Lounge, playing with fire rigging their product that is on TV.
Has anyone confirmed that Club WPT Gold has actually paid out the $1M? Announcements that they will are just talk.
The solution could be for ClubWPT to just give a final table bonus, or maybe final 4 bonus, instead of winner bonus. It's really hard to get more than one person to make a deal and chip dump.
Well they are not some paid entertainers whos job is to entertain u and other spectators. They are players who bought in with their own or staked money and their main goal is to make a profit.Most here would have done the same with so much money on the line, can't tell me otherwise. U obv not because ur main focus in this situation would be what people on stream think and how t
So then you're saying it's ok to cheat as long as profit is the motive?
The solution could be for ClubWPT to just give a final table bonus, or maybe final 4 bonus, instead of winner bonus. It's really hard to get more than one person to make a deal and chip dump.
Or a graduated bonus that starts at the final table and goes up $100k for each place or something. That way they’re only colluding for $100k at the end.
The solution could be for ClubWPT to just give a final table bonus, or maybe final 4 bonus, instead of winner bonus. It's really hard to get more than one person to make a deal and chip dump.
They would be better running some sort of site promo where 200 people get to play the champ heads up for 5 thousand. hide the entries in mystery bounties competitions at all stakes. Pros going to win a large percentage, people going to play the champ. much better all round I think.
Unless the champ wants to "guarantee" his money with them all😀
The solution could be for ClubWPT to just give a final table bonus, or maybe final 4 bonus, instead of winner bonus. It's really hard to get more than one person to make a deal and chip dump.
That might make it worse. Then you've got incentive for the big stacks to collude with the short stacks to keep them alive.
They don't need more than one player to collude, just one big stack feeding the short stack a few blinds here and there to keep them going. That would absolutely be unfair to the other players trying to ladder and make pay jumps.
Given that WPT promotion was nut low in causing potential problems it’s not hard to come up with better
