Collusion at Final Table of Millionaire Maker!
Yaginuma vs Carroll. Carroll enters final table with 10 to 1 chip lead, Yaginuma gets $1 million dollar bonus from Club
Man Carroll could of done the greatest thing possible. They get heads up, first hand is dealt and Carroll gets up and starts walking out of the tournament room as they blind him out. PokerGo cameras follow him around, he lights up a heater in the hallway, has a small group of friends go outside with him. "They soo mad in there right now" "Saying I'm disrespecting the game"
"He called me with jack high....jack high!"
There is a 0% chance WPT pays. There was also a 100% chance everyone watching the stream was going to notice immediately what they were doing. The smartest thing those two morons could’ve done is have Moron #2 right before sitting down for HU pick up his phone and scream WHAT HOSPITAL IS MOM IN, run out the door, then disappear for two weeks.It’s like the “sti
Orly?
https://www.pokernews.com/news/2025/06/clubwpt-gold-decision-on-poker-scandal-48976.htm
Who cares, deals are part of poker
Having thought it through a bit more about how to actually resolve it.If it was up to me, though I don't love it, I end up paying and awarding the bracelet; what they did doesn't rise to the level of money forfeiture. I also tell them see you at the 2027 WSOP in Vegas and you're banned from all WSOP events until then. If I was WPT, I'd contest paying the million, but accept I'
What if instead of WPT running this it was some shady upstart poker site that was suspected of ties to organized crime I highly doubt they would have tried this scam because they would’ve ended up in desert, I’m just amazed at all the players defending these scumbags it makes you wonder if all of them are pulling some shady stuff.
There are more than 4 outcomes
Yagi doesn’t pay Carroll
WSOP and/or WPT suspend or ban
Caesars ban from all properties
Agreed...was working under the assumption that Carroll always gets paid and didn't add/consider other consequences b/c they are indirect and too hard to quantify. Was trying to simplify the decision tree and figure out whether these guys even bothered to do any math.
Agreed...was working under the assumption that Carroll always gets paid and didn't add/consider other consequences b/c they are indirect and too hard to quantify. Was trying to simplify the decision tree and figure out whether these guys even bothered to do any math.
Understood. I believe there is a guy who got banned from Caesars because he took lots of sandwiches out of Kings room to give to friends playing outside.
Maybe nothing will happen for various reasons. But playing with fire when deciding to rig the ending of a televised WSOP event.
I was curious to know at what point colluding becomes -EV. Not positive my math is correct but these are my assumptions.If they decide to collude, there are 4 possible outcomes:1. WSOP and WPT both pay.2. WSOP and WPT both withhold.3. WSOP pays and WPT withholds.4. WSOP withholds and WPT pays.If we assign a 10% probability that WPT withholds (payment of the $1M Promo Bonus) the
I don't know the liquidity of these two, but calculating for utility value could change the percentages a ton if they're not deeply rolled
Dude...if that's actually you in the pic...first sorry...then def pot calling the kettle black.
sarcasm detection is a lost art
I'm surprised WPT paid out and I'll be even more surprised if WSOP does the same. These guys are idiots.
I'm surprised WPT paid out and I'll be even more surprised if WSOP does the same. These guys are idiots.
WSOP would lose big time if adjudicated. When the two players reached heads-up, they locked up 1st and 2nd place money between them. It would be a long road for WSOP to try to deny payment. Maybe they combine 1st and 2nd place money and equally distribute it 50/50 and withhold or negate the actual bracelet win.
End of the day, as comical as it looked, it was basically a heads-up deal, which is done all the time, this just happened to be on tv for dozens to see.
This is nothing like the rampant cheating of Team Tamayo running real-time solvers on the rail, which WSOP didn't do chit about. And yes, there is a nebulous "catch all" fairness rule that could've been applied, even if there wasn't specifically a "no solvers on the rail" rule at the time lol.
This is nothing like the rampant cheating of Team Tamayo running real-time solvers on the rail, which WSOP didn't do chit about. And yes, there is a nebulous "catch all" fairness rule that could've been applied, even if there wasn't specifically a "no solvers on the rail" rule at the time lol.
They didn't do chit about it because there were no rules regarding that until this year. And they did eventually do chit about it by changing the rules for this year. These two guys harmed the integrity of the game and are in violation of rule 40 or whatever the chit number it was.
The first guys making a certain WSOP heist walk free. But don't try again. We will probably not see friends running solvers or blatant chip dumping at FTs again. Interesting WSOP can't act the first time. Loop holes in TOS, deniability, hushing, what else?
Somehow reminds me of Air Craft Investigation. Cracking down when it's kind of too late. Apparently doing nothing and then "never again" is how things go. You need an actual case, and then time to ponder.
What will be the next immoral thing at the WSOP?
This is nothing like the rampant cheating of Team Tamayo running real-time solvers on the rail, which WSOP didn't do chit about. And yes, there is a nebulous "catch all" fairness rule that could've been applied, even if there wasn't specifically a "no solvers on the rail" rule at the time lol.
They didn't do chit about it because there were no rules regarding that until this ye
I’m shocked, shocked I tells ya!
Who cares. It’s just standard deal making when HU at tournaments.
They didn't do chit about it because there were no rules regarding that until this year. And they did eventually do chit about it by changing the rules for this year. These two guys harmed the integrity of the game and are in violation of rule 40 or whatever the chit number it was.
I posted this a bunch when it happened and people didn't seem interested. IANAL but it seems pretty clear that they were cheating by Nevada law.
Use or possession of device, software or hardware to obtain advantage at playing game prohibited. It is unlawful for any person to use, possess with the intent to use or assist another person in using or possessing with the intent to use any computerized, electronic, electrical or mechanical device, or any software or hardware, or any combination thereof, which is designed, constructed, altered or programmed to obtain an advantage at playing any game in a licensed gaming establishment or any game that is offered by a licensee or affiliate, including, without limitation, a device that:
1. Projects the outcome of the game;
2. Keeps track of cards played or cards prepared for play in the game;
3. Analyzes the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. Analyzes the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game,
Ê except as may be made available as part of an approved game or otherwise permitted by the Commission.
Yeah, just saw that, wow. Have to think WSOP 99.999% pays them now, but perhaps withholds the bracelet and still bans them.
Be funny if Yagi & Carroll wind up in court in a dispute over the WPT money.
Does go to show gambling entities really don’t want to got to over not paying winners.
I don't understand people's beef here. Tamayo rightfully should have been DQed for multiple rules violations. This situation is absurd because it's impossible to prove intent without an admission of guilt. I certainly won't touch a WSOP product until these winners are paid. I don't expect a single person to, but we should all boycott them. They give certain pros special rules and don't pay others. Looks corrupt to me.
... Be funny if Yagi & Carroll wind up in court in a dispute over the WPT money. ...
In an attempt to bring this ongoing, back and forth discussion to a close in the meantime, until the issue is decided in the likely Civil Fraud case, ("In the US legal system, fraud is generally defined as a deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain"), please let it be known that I am happy to take on the role of the escrow agent; at a nominal rake of just 5%.
Cheers.
In an attempt to bring this ongoing, back and forth discussion to a close in the meantime, until the issue is decided in the likely Civil Fraud case, ("In the US legal system, fraud is generally defined as a deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain"), please let it be known that I am happy to take on the role of the escrow agent; at a nominal rake of just 5%.Cheer
You are the house!
I certainly won't touch a WSOP product until these winners are paid. I don't expect a single person to, but we should all boycott them.
Let us know how that works out for ya
As long as the two of them keep their gobs shut it is likely little or nothing happens but lessons have to be learned about running such stupid promotions.
I don't understand people's beef here. Tamayo rightfully should have been DQed for multiple rules violations. This situation is absurd because it's impossible to prove intent without an admission of guilt. I certainly won't touch a WSOP product until these winners are paid. I don't expect a single person to, but we should all boycott them. They give certain pros special rules a
This doesn’t make sense to me, what if there was an event you were in where there was obvious collusion against you in final three. If wsop was looking to investigate it seems unlikely you would say forget it, they can’t prove intent. Although maybe you would say you would and good on you in principle for being consistent if you mean it but would be silly to allow that.
Just so no one is thinking something else, if these players are not paid out, the $$$ will go to other players in some fashion. It’s not a cash grab.
But this also isn’t a murder trial where proof is needed beyond a serious doubt. Here it’s so clear what happened and we basically even know how they did it too with even and odd. Commentators were able to predict what would happen before it did. No idea what the process would be for a challenge but it might be players fighting the uphill battle as NGC/WSOP would probably put on a polished case.
I don't understand people's beef here. Tamayo rightfully should have been DQed for multiple rules violations. This situation is absurd because it's impossible to prove intent without an admission of guilt. I certainly won't touch a WSOP product until these winners are paid. I don't expect a single person to, but we should all boycott them. They give certain pros special rules a
Love the thought of regs boycotting because of this. Reminds me of those old attempts to have a reg boycott of stars due to high rake or bad promos. It never works because recs don’t give two shits and all you’re doing is making the games better for regs who actually want to make money.
As long as the two of them keep their gobs shut it is likely little or nothing happens but lessons have to be learned about running such stupid promotions.
The only thing the WPT learned is that it worked like gangbusters!
Love the thought of regs boycotting because of this. Reminds me of those old attempts to have a reg boycott of stars due to high rake or bad promos. It never works because recs don’t give two shits and all you’re doing is making the games better for regs who actually want to make money.
Right? It's like
How would they even enforce a rule like that in court if both players never admit to colluding? It's not like they signed a binding contract between themselves to split the prize money. most likely was a closed doors handshake agreement..
It’s obvious to any poker player it was collusion but to the layman in court, it could be difficult to get that across. Like that Postle guy s
A winrate argument doesn't hold any water given the sample size.
