Collusion at Final Table of Millionaire Maker!
Yaginuma vs Carroll. Carroll enters final table with 10 to 1 chip lead, Yaginuma gets $1 million dollar bonus from Club
I really don’t care. They aren’t cheating anyone else out of money like that scum Tamayo did last year. If WSOP lets the main event champion use a solver in heads up then anything is fair game. Apparently WPT has millions to give away from raking the poker community. Pay the man his money.
I can just counter and say "it looked standard but I'm sure they colluded regardless".. neither of us know for sure. That's the issue.
It was standard in it was something you would normally see but NEVER happened in all of those hands when they were heads up. 3 handed Carroll put Yaginuma at risk. He never did heads up.
Was the risk worth the reward? Because these two clowns are going to end up not getting paid anything. WSOP put out a statement saying they are not awarding the bracelet, paying out 1st or 2nd place and are carrying out an investigation. Everyone says no player got hurt. Instead they went up against the house. The house always wins. All the house has to say is "we think yall cheated in some form so we are not paying you. And your banned from competition for life. " I don't think they thought this one out with ZERO money being option C.
ICM considered. GTO utilized.
Was the risk worth the reward? Because these two clowns are going to end up not getting paid anything. WSOP put out a statement saying they are not awarding the bracelet, paying out 1st or 2nd place and are carrying out an investigation. Everyone says no player got hurt. Instead they went up against the house. The house always wins. All the house has to say is "we think yall ch
Agreed it was dumb of them to try and cheat the house. If they were just cheating other players wsop would not care in the slightest. One of the cardinal rules of gambling is you don’t **** with the house money.
Agreed it was dumb of them to try and cheat the house. If they were just cheating other players wsop would not care in the slightest. One of the cardinal rules of gambling is you don’t **** with the house money.
They didn't really cheat WSOP though. WSOP was going to pay out first and second place money to someone regardless. As long as collusion didn't occur while there were still 3+ players there shouldn't be an issue from WSOP's perspective. It's no different than if the final two had made a handshake agreement to chop the final two spots.
WPT is the company with a potential beef, as they are the ones paying out the million.
Based on what I've heard so far I think the fairest thing would be for WSOP to pay out and WPT to refuse to pay the million. But it's on them to prove the alleged collusion if they're going to go this route, and the bad press and potential lawsuit might not make it worth it to them to withhold the money.
The rules regarding collusion and chip dumping require that a 3rd party, i.e. the field or other remaining players, be impacted. It’s heads up, there are no other affected players anymore. Yes it sucks to watch and makes a farce out of the heads up, but in the end it’s equivalent to a heads up chop deal.
If I remember correctly, there was a Doyle Brunson story where he really didn’t want to win WSOP in the early days because he thought it would kill his cash game action, so he effectively chip dumped himself out of the tournament. Story was something like that.
They didn't really cheat WSOP though. WSOP was going to pay out first and second place money to someone regardless. As long as collusion didn't occur while there were still 3+ players there shouldn't be an issue from WSOP's perspective. It's no different than if the final two had made a handshake agreement to chop the final two spots.WPT is the company with a potential beef, as
I think the WPT would have to have some special collusion rules for their bonus to not pay out or they are incumbent on WSOP's decision on whether colluding heads up is within their rules. It WPT just states that you have to win a WSOP event, then it seems they are tied to WSOP's decision on the winner of their event.
The rules regarding collusion and chip dumping require that a 3rd party, i.e. the field or other remaining players, be impacted. It’s heads up, there are no other affected players anymore. Yes it sucks to watch and makes a farce out of the heads up, but in the end it’s equivalent to a heads up chop deal.If I remember correctly, there was a Doyle Brunson story where he really
And how do you think the Nevada Gaming Commission feels about chip dumping?
BTW, if it is decided this is ok head's up, I believe the best way forward is have the guy who is going to lose just leave his chip stack on the table and let them blind him off.
BTW, if it is decided this is ok head's up, I believe the best way forward is have the guy who is going to lose just leave his chip stack on the table and let them blind him off.
good thinking..."family emergency" and then blinded off would have been a less obvious way to lose...
what gets me the most is the people that are like this happens all the time, while true
Taking money to give someone else the win is match fixing and any sport would drop the hammer on everyone involved. Here it's like lol everybody does it so it's good. The poker world is sad.
The rules regarding collusion and chip dumping require that a 3rd party, i.e. the field or other remaining players, be impacted.
Could you show me where in the rules you see this? Here's what I see in Rule 40, section f:
Anyone found to have engaged in or attempted to engage in any act that WSOP officials believe in their sole and absolute discretion compromises or could compromise the competitive integrity of the WSOP will be subject to sanctions imposed by Host Properties
They didn't really cheat WSOP though. WSOP was going to pay out first and second place money to someone regardless. As long as collusion didn't occur while there were still 3+ players there shouldn't be an issue from WSOP's perspective. It's no different than if the final two had made a handshake agreement to chop the final two spots.WPT is the company with a potential beef, as
The WSOP can say that they compromised the integrity of the game by doing this. They can also turn around and sue the two players for damaging their brand and loss of potential future earnings due to their actions at the FT. That their actions caused irreparablep damages to their name and reputation within the casino community as well as put their gaming license in jeopardy by carrying this scheme out on live stream in front of the whole world.
A trillion dollar company has lawyers to write it better than me. They opened up a door without knowing what could be on the other side. I say all this to say I'm rooting for them. But i believe they will get disqualified without payment and get banned if for only as the poster children for any future things like this going on.
Could you show me where in the rules you see this? Here's what I see in Rule 40, section f:
Anyone found to have engaged in or attempted to engage in any act that WSOP officials believe in their sole and absolute discretion compromises or could compromise the competitive integrity of the WSOP will be subject to sanctions imposed by Host Properties
Section IV, Rule 40b
“….against other Participants”.
what gets me the most is the people that are like this happens all the time, while true
Taking money to give someone else the win is match fixing and any sport would drop the hammer on everyone involved. Here it's like lol everybody does it so it's good. The poker world is sad.
I understand that chopping the money is standard practice in poker tournaments. I am not so sure that making deals for who wins a bracelet is standard. I imagine that players that make bracelet side bets would do this if they were in the same situation. Not sure of specific incidents of when this has happened. Does anybody know of when a bracelet has been negotiated for money?
The bracelet guy is holding up somehow doesn't look as valuable as before. Brand hurt.
WSOP could benefit from putting their foot down. "Not anything goes". That is getting exposure too.
what gets me the most is the people that are like this happens all the time, while true
Taking money to give someone else the win is match fixing and any sport would drop the hammer on everyone involved. Here it's like lol everybody does it so it's good. The poker world is sad.
Yea this. There are betting markets that are affected by this. If poker wants any legitimacy as a sport/competitive activity there needs to be 0 tolerance for this kind of crap.
Was the risk worth the reward? Because these two clowns are going to end up not getting paid anything. WSOP put out a statement saying they are not awarding the bracelet, paying out 1st or 2nd place and are carrying out an investigation. Everyone says no player got hurt. Instead they went up against the house. The house always wins. All the house has to say is "we think yall ch
I'd say that your option C of not getting paid anything is less then 5% chance of happening.
Whats the reward, an extra million dollars? Seems worth the risk.
Barring saying or doing anything stupid these guys are going to get paid. WPT might try to fight it some way, but they will lose . They brought it upon themselves. Under the table deals/chops like this happen all the time for much less of a reward then $1,000,000. Sometimes guys just want the trophy/bracelet more then the other, so he other guy gets a little more money and they agree the other guy will get the trophy. But they still have to play it out and they make sure the "trophy guy" wins all the chips so he gets the trophy/bracelet.
Isn't that the same thing?
I'm surprised WSOP is even investigating, why should they care? I don't think they do investigations everytime they suspect an unoffcial chop deal
I'd say that your option C of not getting paid anything is less then 5% chance of happening.Whats the reward, an extra million dollars? Seems worth the risk.Barring saying or doing anything stupid these guys are going to get paid. WPT might try to fight it some way, but they will lose . They brought it upon themselves. Under the table deals/chops like this happen all the
In a world of gray shades this is a pitch dark case. Could be the difference.
But but it was GTO? ��
Seriously why tf do any of you care? It was heads up, no other player was affected. Is it because you wanted to see a riveting heads up match on PokerGo and were deprived?
Honesty can sometimes be GTO. The mantra "only money matters" is old. Just bad business, as in Rounders.
