Moderation Questions

Probably still not looking at it accurately.

The genes are still going to be out there-- not your exact combination obviously but your genes are still going to be in the pool and represented.

for a while, if they were common enough, and if they didn't correlate strongly (or if they weren't part of a gene cluster with strong anti-fitness properties) with anti-fitness.

but there will be fewer of them than the counterfactual, and over enough generations that can mean exctinction, at least of specific behavioural related gene sets if not single genes

I understand what you're saying, I just don't think using the word 'environmental' that way is useful.
If you do that, you need to come up with another term meaning "the environment excluding other members of the same species".

*sigh*

Rob, do you think sexual selection produces "factors that reduce or increase reproductive success in a portion of a population" or not? I genuinely don't get your confusion here.

"Evolutionary pressure" or "selection pressure" is a thing that drives evolution. Natural selection can create selection pressure, sexual selection can create selection pressure, artificial breeding can create selection pressure, etc. etc. That link had a whole section on "Humans exerting evolutionary pressure," if you'd care to read it.

When life reaches this point, as humanity has, then life is no longer playing the Darwinian / biology game anymore. The new game is harder.

Life can no longer depend on biology to save it against the metacrisis it’s now facing in the new game.

What winning means must be re-understood.

Gemini is only partially helpful

so perhaps chillrob , "abiotic and biotic environment" could work, at least among us?

why do you think we are going through some unique crisis currently? genuine question, it's not like I don't see there is some significant tension currently, it's just that I think historically (both recently and a long time ago in many places) humanity went through FAR WORSE (imo).

How am I doing, Craig? Just wanna check the temperature

Past threats were more localized, slower moving, and less connected.

I am grunching most of this thread (for now), but IMO Chez made a good point in his comment about human intelligence complicating matters relative to other mammals.

Because of our (**** sapiens) intelligence and being highly social animals, “incels” can and do band together to overthrow alpha male tyrants who monopolize reproductive fitness.

In some ways one could view the election of Trump as an “incel revolution”.

So the “natural” polygamous harem mating system that crossnerd seems so fond of that you see in other mammals doesn’t work as well in humans (for this reason and others)

Of course there are social strategies that “elites” use to convince Incels to not revolt and accept very poor reproductive fitness prospects, such as organized religion where you convince low status males they will be rewarded in the afterlife (see Palestinian society as an example of this phenomenon in action)

But I think we have enough of a sample size (and really common sense would lead one to the same conclusion) to suggest that the current western paradigm of atheist neoliberalism, feminism and social media derived polarization (which has created conditions where as Lucium points out there are a large population of males AND females not mating) is not particularly stable or viable.

so you think the current state of interconnectedness of humanity globally makes it more fragile?

We are going to overcome and win, but relying on what we’ve relied on in the past (biology and technological advancement) is only speeding up the crisis.

It’s true, I do love a good polygamous harem

In certain ways. I think it’s undeniable. A lot of people are making this argument, though.

Very few understand how existential and fast moving the chronic illness / chronic pain trend is.

#WomenInSTEM

I would say we are still playing the ecolutionary fitness game, just not particularly well. And our extinction in the near term seems likely.

And there is nothing special about this. Environments change, species don’t adapt (even when they are the ones causing the change) , and they go extinct.

Are human beings just like those other animals? If so, extinction awaits.

As I mentioned previously, the solution is in culture, not biology or technology. Humanity must become experts in culture. That is our superpower.

i don't see exctinction in the near term as being plausible. it's technically possible but rather unlikely.

I think there are niches of human beings able for various reasons to survive even extreme catastrophes.

a massive reduction in world wide population is unlikely but orders of magnitude more probable that actual extinction with requires very peculiar characteristics

I think it is going on but it's not universal, and it doesn't touch anything close to 100% of humanity. if 10, 20, 30 or even 70% of people are going to existential dread and will self select outside of existence that leaves more than one billion human beings to thrive later on.

we survived several instances of 15-30% of the population dying in 1-2 years. like 10-15 such cases (pestilences) from 500 AD to 1700 AD in Europe.

we can surely go through one or more su he events again and come out of that stronger than before like it happened every other time.

it's rather time that happens actually, some of us were hoping COVID was it but unfortunately it did nothing on those terms, population INCREASED worldwide instead of 500m + dying

Well good thing you don’t get paid for thinkin’, big dog 👍

Your intuition is right that thriving is on the other side of culling and death, but it’s not in the way you’re thinking about it currently.

Have you checked ACM rates recently? You might get your wish. Just wait till the depop weapon really kicks in.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, I'm sure he didn't mean you.