GGPoker Winning NL500/NL1000 Reg Banned for "RTA"
Hello 2+2,
I’m posting this because I believe I was unjustly permanently banned by GG Poker for alleged Real-Time Assista
I made an update in my reddit post which already has more than 9.5k views and generated quite some traction.
https://www.reddit.com/r/GGPoker/comment...
I encourage everyone to participate in this thread. We shouldn't turn a blind eye to what's happening. The goal is to tackle the problem, not ignore it.
He even showed me a screen-share/video call of his chat with GG representatives, where they literally listed winning players they wanted to ban.
So GG reps just openly chatted about banning players for winning and actually listed the winners they wanted to ban.
If they were this careless with secret information its a miracle the smoking gun have never seen the light of day before
I want to believe a lot of things ITT but I call bullshit on this one
They spoke privately with an agent, a large agent who had many mid-stakes+ players under his command. He showed me a list of his players and which ones he had to say goodbye to because he'd received such an order from above.
They also allowed everyone to withdraw their roll from their account, but banned them from playing any further.
Besides, when I returned to the game two years ago, I openly wrote on GG that I got banned a few years ago for winning because that was their policy, and they unbanned me...
They spoke privately with an agent, a large agent who had many mid-stakes+ players under his command. He showed me a list of his players and which ones he had to say goodbye to because he'd received such an order from above.They also allowed everyone to withdraw their roll from their account, but banned them from playing any further.Besides, when I returned to the game two year
If this was the reason they unbanned you then the whole banned community would do it and get the same treatment. It's a form of confirmation bias.
Winning players are obviously the ones who are going to undergo tighter scrutiny on such matters. What's likely going on here is one of three things a) ban is justified. b) false positives because they are using some bullshit AI to do the checks (see 888's history with verification). c) some program that is running on their computer while playing is being picked up as suspicious.
I am not going to judge anyone in here either way but it is good to have a discussion about it and more transparency is required from operators when explaining to a player what they are being punished for. I don't buy this rubbish that it will compromise their security blah blah.
Hope this ends well.
I don't see how anyone could trust what GG does behind the scenes seeing how they're bleeding the ecosystem dry.
If its common practice I would like to see one of those lists. And its in fact strange it hasnt been shared here before.
Preferably the list they have now so we know which winners are going to be banned in the near future
If they really were banning players SOLELY for winning that would be a huge deal imo, a reason to not play there ever again. I cant imagine people working at GG being so cavalier sharing the details of this possibly huge controversy, it doesnt make any sense.
If its common practice I would like to see one of those lists. And its in fact strange it hasnt been shared here before.Preferably the list they have now so we know which winners are going to be banned in the near futureIf they really were banning players SOLELY for winning that would be a huge deal imo, a reason to not play there ever again. I cant imagine people working at GG
You are underestimating stupidity of just one person who felt important enough at one point to brag. History is full of such examples.
I don't see why it's so hard to believe GG is playing as dirty as possible, do they have a single instance in their behavior which suggests otherwise, that they are a shining beacon of honesty?
If its common practice I would like to see one of those lists. And its in fact strange it hasnt been shared here before.Preferably the list they have now so we know which winners are going to be banned in the near futureIf they really were banning players SOLELY for winning that would be a huge deal imo, a reason to not play there ever again. I cant imagine people working at GG
Unfortunately, I don't have those conversations with the agent because it was a video and I didn't take screenshots, back in the Skype days.
The only thing I can share is the email I received when I was unbanned two years ago, where I explicitly stated I was banned in accordance with the policy for removing winning players. I assume it's an amnesty because a friend who was banned emailed me and also got unbanned.
I'm not sharing anything right now because, as you know, my case is still ongoing, and I have a frozen account with $60,000+ in gems, so it's not that simple, and it's actually a very stressful situation.
It's also strange that so many people received warnings at the same time and it seems to be random, and when the guy uses seat script openly, they don't do anything about it, and I reported him every session for about 2 weeks+
btw who would keep that much $ in their account if they were still using RTA after the warning, for me it's just a scam and there's no sense in it
Shitty situation but isn't this the problem? The only knowledge I have of smarthand is from a brief Google 2 minutes ago, so I may be way off the mark, but it seems in clear violation of the data mining policy.
7.3. User is strictly prohibited from granting direct or indirect access to one’s own PokerCraft data, including one’s tournament results, or sharing one’s own hand histories to another party.
If its common practice I would like to see one of those lists. And its in fact strange it hasnt been shared here before.
I meant it's common practice at that particular site (not talking about GG, but other smaller room), I don't believe it's common everywhere.
And it's not like there are specific secret lists or something. It's just a casual daily chat where higher ups ask to check HH or other data of big winners and find a reason to ban.
In apps it's very common, I don't play there anymore, but back then I got banned many times. It was/is a wild west, so they can just ban you without any reason, but my agent told me it was because of winning.
Seems similar thing is going on at some mainstream sites, the difference is they need to find a more legitimate reason to do this.
Shitty situation but isn't this the problem? The only knowledge I have of smarthand is from a brief Google 2 minutes ago, so I may be way off the mark, but it seems in clear violation of the data mining policy.
7.3. User is strictly prohibited from granting direct or indirect access to one’s own PokerCraft data, including oneI've thought about this one before and I think its breaching ToS
But surely this falls under the section of datamining and not RTA? Which is what these players are warned/banned for.
You are underestimating stupidity of just one person who felt important enough at one point to brag. History is full of such examples.
But we know about those things in history because we've seen them after they were leaked by this one person.
As I havent seen anything evidential on the topic of list of winners to be banned soon I find it hard to believe.
Not because I think people are all clever. And not because I think the room with a hidden PVI and preflop rake is flawless is any way.
In the meantime I hope people vote with their wallets, there are better alternatives out there (for most)
I've thought about this one before and I think its breaching ToSBut surely this falls under the section of datamining and not RTA? Which is what these players are warned/banned for.But we know about those things in history because we've seen them after they were leaked by this one person.As I havent seen anything evidential on the topic of list of winners to be banned soon I fi
If they can get information on their opponents from that, then that is assistance that can happen in real time.
RTA doesn't just mean solvers, the definition is broad and covers just about anything that can be used to help play.
From the same link :
2. Use of Real-Time Assistance (RTA)
2.1. RTA is defined as any external assistance which provides users with an unfair advantage over their opponents, influences their decision making in real-time, or allows them to play in a manner they otherwise would not be able to replicate.
2.2. Every decision made at the poker table should be made free of any external assistance.
2.3. External assistance includes, but is not limited to, software, apps, websites, physical and digital reference materials. Referring to charts of any kind during play is strictly prohibited.
2.4. Potential actions for breaches: PERMANENT BAN, CONFISCATION OF FUNDS.
Thats interesting, seems like using a site like smarthand could indeed fall into both categories of datamining and RTA then
If smarthand (or a similar site) is indeed the culprit Im almost shocked that the amount of warnings/bans hasnt been even higher since those sites have pretty high visitor numbers. Im not sure though if pokersites can see only which browser is running or also which websites are opened in that browser, I thought there was a problem with the latter but not 100% on this ( edit: checked this, and they in fact cannot see browsing history but can see which processes are running, so it would be tough on them to spot smarthand visitors specifically)
Players who talked here about being banned. Did you use sites like smarthand when being warned and did you continue to use it so it might have resulted in the ban?
edit:
Does seem like it falls under datamining but it will result in actions taken in the cases described
It's possible. If they saved a note on the client with stats lifted from SmartHand, then GG will have the evidence they need. It's sort of stretching the definition of RTA when this already fits neatly into datamining though. I sure wish GG could say what's up so we wouldn't have to speculate like this.
Not ever happening. We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing.
As for your own wrongdoing, we found strong evidence, just enough to confiscate your funds, but to protect our own brilliant algorithms, we can't disclose any additional information.
Not ever happening. We have investigated ourselves and found no wrongdoing.
As for your own wrongdoing, we found strong evidence, just enough to confiscate your funds, but to protect our own brilliant algorithms, we can't disclose any additional information.
I agree that it would be nice for the banned players to know what they've done wrong but I can see why GG won't give specifics as to their detection methods. Poker Stars won't do that either. Making something like that public just opens it up for players to find ways to exploit the methods. It's not the sites job to help an individual player in this manner, it's the sites job to protect the entire player base. If GG say software X is the problem, someone can just make a new version of that software that isn't being scanned for, or works in a slightly different manner to avoid detection.
Is it shitty for those that have been banned? Of course.
I think it's likely that people are probably using some form of RTA, they just don't think it's RTA because it isn't GTO Wizard. The definition of RTA is very broad, I posted the link to the security policy above. Someone using RTA does not mean they're playing GTO, they are two separate things.
I don't see how anyone could trust what GG does behind the scenes seeing how they're bleeding the ecosystem dry.
To be fair, from the pokersite's perspective, winning regulars who only take money out and bring no new money in are bleeding the ecosystem dry. Especially if the recreational players go broke very fast, generating little rake in the process and causing them to stop playing.
I agree that it would be nice for the banned players to know what they've done wrong but I can see why GG won't give specifics as to their detection methods. Poker Stars won't do that either. Making something like that public just opens it up for players to find ways to exploit the methods. It's not the sites job to help an individual player in this manner, it's the sites job t
I often watched content on another screen(youtube,twich) while playing...and sometimes had google sheet for accouting opened.
All of these could be seen as RTA if someone wants to ban you. Watching twich streamer explaing hand is allowed? ��
GG treating players like ****, there is no way around that. I am scared opening or even installing any program on PC now. I understand there are stupid people, but would assume nobody with serious intent of cheating will use anything on same PC.
So all this terrorizing of mostly fair player base while literally every cheater using setup to avoid basic detection like that.
I agree that it would be nice for the banned players to know what they've done wrong but I can see why GG won't give specifics as to their detection methods. Poker Stars won't do that either.
They don't have to go into specifics. I would feel a lot better if GG issues a statement where they just acknowledge what is happening. PokerStars would have done that a long time ago. CoinPoker too. In fact I can't think of any other pokersite that wouldn't. The arrogance on display from GG is really quite provoking.
They don't have to go into specifics. I would feel a lot better if GG issues a statement where they just acknowledge what is happening. PokerStars would have done that a long time ago. CoinPoker too. In fact I can't think of any other pokersite that wouldn't. The arrogance on display from GG is really quite provoking.
I don't recall any statements from Stars that would say what you want to have been said. I've heard interviews with their head of game security and he absolutely will not go into any specifics of detection methods,
Stars do at least publish a list of software that is explicitly prohibited, at least in the regulated UK market. Interestingly smarthand is on the list of prohibited software at Stars. Smarthand even comes under their last of tools and services that are prohibited at all times. So it's prohibited even if their software isn't running, running software has its own separate list.
https://www.pokerstars.uk/poker/room/pro...
Anyone banned, or still playing would probably serve themselves well to look at this list and assume that GG covers at least the same, then consider if they use any of these services.
I'm more and more convinced that the problems lay with something that a particular user didn't perceive as RTA but which GG did. They can easily claim innocence and absolutely believe what they're saying to be true. I don't think anyone here is deliberately lying when they say they didn't use any RTA. The problem isn't what they believe, it's ignorance of what is classed as RTA.
Im not sure how stars handles these situations these days because they dont have a license in my country anymore
But years years ago I had flopzilla open when I opened pokerstars and immediately can a message (and I believe an email) explaining that they detected that I was using Flopzilla which isnt allowed. Fair honest mistake, never happened again.
Couple of years ago on iPoker, I am playing and want to open something on the toolbar, misclick and open equilab. Immediately a message saying I cant have Equilab open while playing and I need to close it asap. Again honest mistake, removed equilab from the toolbar and never happened again.
These are the two times I was warned in online poker and it never resulted in a ban because I knew exactly what the culprit was. I responded to the mail explaining what had happened, they noticed I closed the program down immediately and I was a first time "offender" so just a warning and it never happened again.
They didnt have to disclose any specifics on detection methods (albeit pretty clear in both cases I was running the prohibited program) but naming the culprit takes all the speculation out of it. Which is all we can really do now.. Although when Im speculating im leaning more and more on the culprit being smarthand or something closely related and GG uses the term RTA a bit loosely
You really ignoring fact that literally all effected players are nl200+ and mostly big winners.
If this is specific random program being flagged, there should be so many more players effected. And while doing 30+ days of investigation would become clear to security support this people intent was not cheating.
I personally never used Smarthand. I did occasionally open twitch if I was in a hand with a streamer to see what they had, but surely they dont disallow that they had a link on the player to their twitch account..
Well, the biggest winners remain active actually. Not talking about Linus & co but the bigger 200nl winners etc. If GG were really only just trying to ban big winners for ecology reasons it would make sense to (also) ban the biggest winners on each stake.
And about the intent of cheating, I dont think it matters from a GG perspective. As an example, lets take smarthand as the culprit. Its a prohibited feature to use, a player uses it and gets warned, the coming month he still uses it. Even if that player didnt intent on cheating or thought he was cheating he did continue to break ToS.
Maybe 200nl+ players take more notes and actually put smarthand stats in their notes (so they dont have to click that profile each time).
