The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

TJ is 100% a troll who thinks he is being funny.

His schtick just doesnt make sense.

I would suggest ignoring him.

Waddy however I believe to be sincere.

He is not very bright but i think in his case it all checks out.

What the hell is a spinning silver star on full tilt by the way guys?

They both post the same kind of bs. They are the same lonely loser probably.

The font size analogy is a category error. Font size is a static UI element, it does not change based on player behavior or rake distribution. PVI, however, is a dynamic metric derived from the very data (player activity/rake) that the software processes. Because PVI is a variable dependent on the system's internal data, the possibility of a link to the RNG exists unless technical proof of isolation is provided.

Furthermore, you are using whataboutism by bringing up my comments on live poker to avoid answering your original claim about PVI. My opinions regarding live poker are a separate topic.

You keep saying "it’s been shown everywhere," but you haven't produced a single white paper, audit, or technical document showing the mathematical decoupling of PVI and RNG. "Everyone knows" is an assertion. I am asking for evidence. If you have no proof, simply say so.

You’re missing the distinction. I'm not asking him to prove a negative. I'm asking him to produce the evidence he claims is "everywhere."

He asserted that it has been "shown and said everywhere." I am simply asking to see the proof he is referencing. If he can't show it, then his claim is invalid. It’s not a gimmick. It’s called holding someone to their own standard.

Yeah no not buying it.

Nobody is this stupid.

You need to sprinkle in the absolute lunacy of course if you want to stay entertaining.

Normal dumb doesn't cut it I agree but this is just too over the top.

If you prove the sun is solely a star you also prove its not a planet, even though their both up in the sky
If you prove that PVI is solely a rakeback determinator you also prove its not a runout distributor, even though they both exist within the poker software

But I agree that you are clearly a troll. You say you dont play online poker yet 99% of your posts are in this thread. The fun had been had, you clearly have no intention just to mess around. Thats why you keep misunderstanding basic things.

They are not, of course the topics align perfectly. Its whether poker is fair, online or live.
We both made claims, for which evidence was asked.
I at least provided several materials that told exactly what a PVI is, you showed nothing. But if you dont accept those articles I see why you would struggle to find any evidence that supports your claim while also fitting in with the standards you conveniently hold.
Which you said is not a gimmick.
So again, where is the proof of your statements?
And dont do that bs its a seperate topic. You need to uphold your own standard 😉

Ive had the flu and i have flu... they somehow seem different and you know they are
But its always funny so to see you dig deeper when you've hit rock bottom

LOL, I think this might be why you are struggling waddyboy
When you sit down at a poker table you think its "us versus them" while the other players are playing you.

What planet are you on?
You dont have to truly respect them but you despise them. You think they are just terrible people. So for 25+ years you hang out there. You're an idiot.
How many times have you lost months rent and had to shake hands waddy? And what does it have to with an RNG.
Please take your medicine.

Unfortunately you are not business trained to understand basic logic or basic math.
You are hilarious.
I believe these things are clear to you.
Its called paranoid schizophrenia.

You are now hallucinating claims that I never made just to avoid answering my question. Feel free to quote my claims if you think I'm wrong.

I am asking you to produce the 'everywhere' evidence you claimed exists. You have provided definitions, but zero evidence of causal isolation between PVI and the RNG. Since you have chosen to respond with personal insults and arguments against claims I never made, there is nothing left to discuss. The burden of proof remains on you, and you have failed to meet it.

Your only way out is to acknowledge that you were talking complete ****. There is no way to know what a site is doing with their PVI calculation unless you have access to the code. But you decided to be an idiot instead.

Ultimately, your pattern of making grand assertions without providing any substantiating data is exactly what defines a "riggie".

Quote:
Teflon Dawg said.
Slugant asked to play you HU online

You basically said you won't and certainly not at the stakes Slugant offered

So I asked if you'd play him HU for play money or at .01/.02 at the game you play, PLO8

You seem to not want to simply answer the question, but instead go on weird, long diatribes...the same ones you were making a few months ago and now

I think online poker is manipulated to benefit the sites and that Slugant is here purely to put up weird replies that attempts to belittle those who believe that... as he gets paid a small amount to do this by sites ( such as when you say you have had a business and moved on to other businesses, its the same as saying i have had or have flu or something). Its designed to deflect from the main subject, that sites dont want highlighting.

So tell me.... to play him at online poker would achieve what exactly? I havent answered because i find it quite a bizarre request. He wins, what do you think that proves? I win, what does that prove? The needle from the site reps are bad enough without having a 'grudge match'.... which as we know, is totally irrelevant to the subject.

He is the one of the few on EVERY forum who sticks up for sites, even in their failings... its obvious who he represents. The only things he says he is against is bots, etc, which again is a site problem, so he would! He works from a script, which at the top will be 'if rng rigging comes up, belittle the author, be aggressive and ask them to prove it'. Read the posts, its the same whoever comes in here and suggests a rig, he starts again from the start.

You literally said "There is no proof that Slugant has even played poker, nevermind be a winning player....."

That's why I asked if you'd play any stake and game variant against him

Assuming you don't trust any audit certification posted by any online poker site, there would be no point to this thread since nobody has access to any site's respective coding

That said, you don't seem to make sense about the PVI thing. PVI is applied after the cards are dealt and rake is generated. You seem to be making it sound like it's possible they are doing PVI and PVI can possibly alter the RNG/deal of the cards

That is like saying GG might be altering outcomes by manipulating the RNG and using PVI to manipulate the distribution of rakeback (the latter of which GG publicly states they do). I mean, I guess it's possible, but how exactly would the code be written to make that happen without also not looking like the deal of the cards is insane? I think for that to be true, GG wouldn't be the largest site in the world and many regs would quit in droves, no? I would never play at a site I thought had an "altered" deal, where I push small edges all day long trusting the math/volume/EV to win in the long run

TeflonDawg said; You literally said "There is no proof that Slugant has even played poker, nevermind be a winning player....."

That's why I asked if you'd play any stake and game variant against him

I did say there was no proof that he plays poker or is a winning player.... because there isnt .... as he claims to play under a different name than here.... why he would play under one name and join a forum to defend poker sites from being fined etc , under another, well we can only speculate.....

Bit of a mystery to why he would hide his identity to some, but not to me.

But I have also said previously, that the hardest games online are the ones where i am playing someone who has never played hi lo before. Whereas with a real deck, they would of course, be really really easy. Online the hands go into overdrive of impossibility when the algorithm recognises the gulf in play that exists between 2 players. The constant 'blocking' of opponents i can only describe as 'trying to lose' by the deck, is relentless, crazy, not possible to be a random occurrence.

So again why would i want to play Slugant with an online deck, any stake, when i dont trust the deck? And what would this prove? I know he could beat me online, even if he is not familiar with the game of hi lo, as many do... as they are the hardest to beat with an online deck protecting them....

Whatever the outcome, it would prove NOTHING. Im not sure why you guys are not getting that.

2010 called, they want their unhinged rigturd rant back!

You are still too over the top no real person is that dumb. you have to make it believable on soem level.

Well playing him wouldn't achieve anything. you would lose 9 out of 10 times and think that proves its rigged.

But h/l being the hardest game online is amazing. Brother those are the softest games on the planet. Half the people you play against dont even know what a low hand is and the other half like you has no idea what the implications of there being a low hand are.

You are quickly closing in on TJ to dumb to not be a troll level of stupid.

HahahahaaHahah so if slugant beats you it means nothing because of the rigged deck. But if you get some weird star trophy that nobody in poker cares about even a little like 15 years ago that proves you are a good player?

You have wisely been avoiding for the most part to actually talk poker as the 2 times you talked about h/l strategy you made a complete fool out of yourself.

Why dont you post some hands and your thoughts on them. That will be entertaining and you might actually learn something.

Low rent shills. I seen that phrase used in another thread.

It's hilarious watching them claim to be confused about why someone would ask them for evidence to prove their theories.

I caught those sites red handed and this week they took me off from the PVI and I was able to win again. Finally.

They still favor the fishes but not as bad as before.

Again TJ to thick on the stupidity.

You obviously know that you have been the one to ask for the proof of a negative repeatedly in this thread.

You obviously also know that you have been the one posting half baked theories without any evidence or relation to reality.

The problem when you pretend to be this dumb is that if you were actually that dense talking to you make as much sense as talking to a cat.

Its rigged.

ge...]

I never said anything about trusting the certifications. If you want to go down that route then the best place to start is by discussing what was actually certified and when. Go ahead and explain exactly what the sites have certified.

I didn't introduce PVI into the debate. Your friend Slugant did that. He claimed there was evidence everywhere that PVi was not linked to the RNG. When I asked him to produce that evidence he started talking about the sun and the stars and the Celcius scale. Everything really apart from the evidence he was supposed to have.

To your last point, I don't have an issue with you risking your money. Do whatever you want. People do seem to have an issue with me taking the opposite stance. Until the sites are proven fair they won't see a cent from me.

Go ahead and quote one of my theories and we'll discuss.

Waiting ...

No thanks.

As I stated before there are 2 options you are trolling or you just don't get it and wont get it.

Either way I cant be bothered to "discuss" anything with you.

You have fun though buddy!

Another low rent shill making claims they can't back up. Who would have thought it.

Please provide evidence of shilling. You made the claim, now you have to provide evidence right? Thats your whole schtick

I and other sites provided information that PVI is applied after cards are dealt to denominate rakeback. Therefore (using basic logic) it doesnt affect the runouts. If you cant comprehend this basic logic there is nothing I or society can do for you.

But this is of course merely a distraction of yours. Distracting from the fact that you keep pussying out like a little girl on the test bet...
Have you saved up already or lost too much at the tables again?
There is no way you would decline on a bet you were so sure of right? Unless it was all words and zero substance of course, but who would expect that from you?🙂

No, its addressing your stupidity.
Literally nobody who is currently owning 2 businesses says "I owned 2 businesses. Oh no I still own them but I owned them too."
Who do you think you are Mitch Hedberg
Its not deflecting from the main subject as I am still willing to play you to show you the problem isnt the RNG, its your lack of skill. Its perfectly showing you are all over the place with your claims, contradicting yourself each time you can and you cant even maintain your lies correctly.

YOU can only speculate. Because you cant even do research, you do everything on speculation.
If you were to use a simple search function (like a 6 year old can) on this forum you would find multiple screennames of mine. You will find 1knl hands, strat talk, charity pools, world cup threads and way more.
That way you wouldnt have to speculate. You would find I discussed HS hands I played.
I also literally never defended a site from being fined, you were speculating again, I defended them from crakcpot tinfoil theories about the RNG.

Next time do 5 minutes of research before you post. It would be enough to debunk everything you said or had to speculate about.
And if you are suspicious of someone being in this thread too much, dont worry about me, 6% of my total posts are here. Worry about TJ who has 96% of his total posts here, even more than me!! What is his deal right? Who is he shilling for??? We must speculate :p

You caught them red-handed and all you have to show for it is one bad beat and a picture of a donkey? And a graph that is really really close to EV somehow means its rigged to you?
You know catching red handed means you caught them in the action.
Did you walk into their headquarters the moment they were adjusting your runouts and out of fear they adjusted it back so you can win again?? :p
It must be nice living in fairy tale land. Nothings ever your fault and everyone else is to blame, no matter how silly it sounds.

That was the claim. Zero evidence provided to date.

If you want to be a stickler about it he said "I Have had" thats past perfect tense. So it implies that you at least do not have these business anymore.

What you have to understand is that I don't care what you have to say.

You and your opinion are just not important to me.

You weird troll.

I am always glad to help or point out some error in thinking but you are very obviously in here on a mission to waste peoples time for your amusement.

I will only entertain that to the point its fun to me.

So better come up with something entertaining soon buddy.