Getting wrecked at NL10 in 2026

30/15 nl10 greek bots. Good one bro.

They just all got such a similar style. Many of them, same stats. It's hard to find even two fish with such similar stats. Anyway, of course could be whatever behind it. Maybe they learned it from someone locally and play a similar style. They are definitely very bad, all of them.

Okay, let's post some hands. Would be happy to get feedback. What would you have done?

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $24.84 (248 bb)
MP: $11.34 (113 bb)
CO: $10.65 (107 bb)
BU: $26.04 (260 bb)
SB: $3.71 (37 bb)
BB (Hero): $18.59 (186 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with Q♣ A♠
2 players fold, CO raises to $0.25, BTN calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets to $1.25, 1 fold, BTN calls $1

Flop: ($2.80) 4♣ 8♠ A♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.80) 5♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.80, Hero calls $2.80

River: ($11.40) 3♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $5.45, BB (Hero) folds

Plan was to have him check turn behind and I go for good value on River. Then he starts betting..
First I thought it was easy fold. Villain was 46/31/14/2AF on just 14 hands. Fish country. Nothing conclusive, possibly a decent player. Not clear.
But then, I mean, it is just half pot. I still think it is a fold, but probably closer than I thought. Struggle to see him playing anything else but 2pair or set that way. 67 also possible. As Js/Ts I guess he would rather jam river, but also possible. So much to the hand that got us beat. It's just 25%, but I just don't see him going turn and river for Value with AT/AJ as top pair. Close again as he is unkown and could be potentially a bit spewy or fishy. Used to call such spots a lot more, however this is almost exclusively sets when I see that kind of aggression.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $6.27 (63 bb)
MP (Hero): $14.68 (147 bb)
CO: $11.79 (118 bb)
BU: $9.33 (93 bb)
SB: $15.25 (153 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is MP with J♠ K♠
UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.25, 4 players fold, UTG calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.65) 7♥ 5♣ K♥ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.47, UTG calls $0.47

Turn: ($1.59) J♣ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.92, UTG calls $1.92

River: ($5.43) 6♦ (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $12.04 (all-in), UTG calls $3.63 (all-in)

Total pot: $12.69 (Rake: $0.57)

Showdown:
MP (Hero) shows J♠ K♠ (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 65%, Flop: 80%, Turn: 82%, River: 0%)

UTG shows 8♠ 9♠ (a straight, Five to Nine)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 35%, Flop: 20%, Turn: 18%, River: 100%)

UTG wins $12.12

Villain is fish. No way to play this but that way. He shows 8s9s of course. Mamma mia 😃

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $24.90 (249 bb)
MP: $8.63 (86 bb)
CO: $11.12 (111 bb)
BU: $11.00 (110 bb)
SB (Hero): $8.09 (81 bb)
BB: $10.23 (102 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with A♦ Q♥
1 fold, MP raises to $0.24, 2 players fold, Hero 3-bets to $1.12, 1 fold, MP 4-bets to $2.70, Hero 5-bets to $8.09 (all-in), MP calls $5.39

Flop: ($16.28) 2♦ Q♠ 9♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($16.28) 3♣ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($16.28) J♦ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $16.28 (Rake: $0.73)

Showdown:
SB (Hero) shows A♦ Q♥ (a pair of Queens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 69%, Flop: 98%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

MP shows A♥ 4♥ (high card, Ace)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 31%, Flop: 2%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

SB (Hero) wins $15.55

Must be like the 3rd or so time I'd actually shove AQo on 4bet from MP vs SB 3bet. In like ever. Just not usually the case. Here I thought it was close. Leaning towards fold still somehow. Villain got 33/25/17 on 73 hands. Not conclusive at all, but it seemed he had 4bet bluffs in his range potentially. I think I got a bit lucky there. He won't show Ax with small kicker here often. I only got 80BB left, which tipped it towards 5bet in the end. Ye, not sure. It's probably not very relevant, both jam and fold will probably have similar EV.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $10.00 (100 bb)
MP: $11.58 (116 bb)
CO: $8.62 (86 bb)
BU: $15.37 (154 bb)
SB: $10.00 (100 bb)
BB (Hero): $10.10 (101 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with T♥ 8♥
3 players fold, BTN raises to $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.55) 5♥ 7♣ 3♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16

Turn: ($0.87) 3♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.46, Hero calls $0.46

River: ($1.79) 4♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.94, Hero raises to $3.83, BTN calls $2.89

Total pot: $9.45 (Rake: $0.43)

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows T♥ 8♥ (a flush, Ten high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 42%, Flop: 24%, Turn: 14%, River: 0%)

BU shows 6♥ Q♥ (a flush, Queen high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 58%, Flop: 76%, Turn: 86%, River: 100%)

BU wins $9.02

Still happy with the hand. Pre, flop, turn all standard I guess. Don't think I could do anything else there really ever. It crossed my mind to hero check/call this on River, but I am usually **** scared to lose value. Really don't think it's too thin. Maybe I could lead River, but wouldn't know what sizing. Block looks awkward. Maybe Pot could be interesting though.

Some more hands, hopefully getting some replies sooner or later.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $10.82 (108 bb)
MP: $12.29 (123 bb)
CO: $25.76 (258 bb)
BU: $17.52 (175 bb)
SB (Hero): $9.90 (99 bb)
BB: $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with J♣ J♦
3 players fold, BTN raises to $0.30, Hero 3-bets to $1.20, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.90

Flop: ($2.50) 3♣ 9♥ 8♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $1.34, BTN calls $1.34

Turn: ($5.18) 6♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $2.77, BTN calls $2.77

River: ($10.72) A♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $10.24, Hero calls $4.59 (all-in)

Total pot: $19.90 (Rake: $0.90)

Showdown:
BU shows 9♠ A♠ (two pair, Aces and Nines)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 32%, Flop: 19%, Turn: 11%, River: 100%)

SB (Hero) shows J♣ J♦ (a pair of Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 68%, Flop: 81%, Turn: 89%, River: 0%)

BU wins $19

Never so sure about turn sizing here. Could probably jam or go slightly bigger. As played I guess I need to c/call River, but also not so sure.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $17.64 (176 bb)
MP: $10.15 (102 bb)
CO: $28.79 (288 bb)
BU: $18.42 (184 bb)
SB: $10.85 (109 bb)
BB (Hero): $19.97 (200 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with A♦ A♥
UTG raises to $0.20, 4 players fold, Hero 3-bets to $0.85, UTG calls $0.65

Flop: ($1.75) 3♥ K♣ 9♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.94, UTG calls $0.94

Turn: ($3.63) 4♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($5.23) 5♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3, Hero calls $3

Total pot: $11.23 (Rake: $0.51)

Showdown:
UTG shows J♠ Q♦ (high card, King)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 15%, Flop: 19%, Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

BB (Hero) shows A♦ A♥ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 85%, Flop: 81%, Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

BB (Hero) wins $10.72

Villain 50/22/0 on 19 hands. Looks spewy, not conclusive. I would by default 2nd barrel that turn like half pot, but somehow I thought I'd let him bet here. Same on River, after 5s is 90% blank here. I expect some flushdraws or backdoor flushdraws: Not a lot of Kings. That makes it a bit difficult. I man for his sizing it is rather easy, but let's say he jams river, I probably have to fold. Turned out to be pure bluff this time, but I doubt he does this with medium hands too - and then it becomes weird.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $11.09 (111 bb)
MP: $10.05 (101 bb)
CO: $10.68 (107 bb)
BU: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB (Hero): $11.77 (118 bb)
BB: $2.92 (29 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with T♠ A♠
UTG raises to $0.25, 3 players fold, Hero calls $0.20, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.75) 8♠ A♥ 7♣ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.36, Hero calls $0.36, BB calls $0.36

Turn: ($1.83) 6♦ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks

River: ($1.83) 3♦ (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2.31 (all-in), UTG folds, Hero calls $2.31

Total pot: $6.45 (Rake: $0.29)

Showdown:
BB shows A♣ 3♠ (two pair, Aces and Threes)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 14%, Turn: 7%, River: 100%)

SB (Hero) shows T♠ A♠ (a pair of Aces)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 72%, Flop: 86%, Turn: 93%, River: 0%)

BB wins $6.16

Villain is unknown. Against reg I call that river 100% on B125. This guy though, I had a feeling he can have all kinds of ****. Range wise obviously he cannot have anything that beats me, sets not possible really, would bet before. Probably would actually, even this guy. Reg can have some AJs here, nothing much else. Sometimes 99 maybe. I expected he would have quite some AXs, small suited aces in the range to do that. 54 would bet turn I guess? Mostly. Anyway, fish overbet is underbluffed of course. Even as played. So he needs 56% bluffs, he can't really overbet anything else for value, at least I can't keep a straight face pretending he probably could. 56% bluffs of unknown in threeway 125B on river.. Nah. Should have folded. Bad hand from my side. Sometimes I am still getting dragged into the station mode vs weird lines. I shouldn't.

If you wish to talk strategy, the better forum would be https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/on...

It's more of a reading audience than an interactive one in PBG.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $12.92 (129 bb)
MP: $5.50 (55 bb)
CO (Hero): $12.40 (124 bb)
BU: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB: $10.96 (110 bb)
BB: $10.10 (101 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is CO with 9♦ 9♣
2 players fold, Hero raises to $0.25, 1 fold, SB 3-bets to $1.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.95

Flop: ($2.50) T♥ 4♥ 4♦ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.67, SB calls $0.67

Turn: ($3.84) J♣ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($3.84) 7♣ (2 players)
SB bets $2.75, Hero calls $2.75

Total pot: $9.34 (Rake: $0.42)

Showdown:
SB shows 8♦ 8♥ (two pair, Eights and Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 18%, Flop: 12%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

CO (Hero) shows 9♦ 9♣ (two pair, Nines and Fours)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 82%, Flop: 88%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

CO (Hero) wins $8.92

I literally thought he won't turn 88 into a bluff here, he'd check that. AF 1.36 - otherwise 17/15/12 on 348 hands. 20 WTSD. TT, JJ, 77 also perfectly in his range. I am really not sure how unlikely the sets are then. At least I can also deduct TT probably, as I think c/c flop is not his go to in 3bet pots with nuts here. He would probably bet. B40 I guess the solvers want anyway. But his Cbet value is only 17! I saw that during the hand, giving me some shivers on River. Of course he can turn all kinds of other **** into bluffs here AhXh first of all, AQ/AK he'd probably peel flop too, at least with the heart. My B28 donk on flop is not really standard, maybe it threw him off a bit too. Now AJ / KJ /QJs makes most sense for value, J9s maybe as well. His 3bet is unusually high for his otherwise quite nitty stats. I would say he probably 3bet 25% of his J9s here, but it is probably in there. Small pockets he could turn into bluff too, 88 though I really didn't expect anymore. I thought he'd rather play them c/c river up to like B70 as played. I am really not sure about this hand at all. Had so many thoughts, he also tanked a lot on River. Then I tanked almost the full bank. Quite a lucky hero call here I guess, I might be totally wrong doing it. Can't say. Another thing is that this line simply looks like the typical Nit reg value line for him. He reps AJ so badly, that even though he got to have many other hands too, it just looks like AJ too much. Gun to my head, I think this is a fold. But not sure.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $6.09 (61 bb)
MP: $27.40 (274 bb)
CO: $10.00 (100 bb)
BU: $10.00 (100 bb)
SB: $23.78 (238 bb)
BB (Hero): $10.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with K♦ J♣
3 players fold, BTN raises to $0.27, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.17

Flop: ($0.59) 6♠ 7♣ T♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18

Turn: ($0.95) K♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.80, Hero calls $0.80

River: ($2.55) J♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $1.83, BTN calls $1.83

Total pot: $6.21 (Rake: $0.28)

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows K♦ J♣ (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 24%, Flop: 15%, Turn: 7%, River: 100%)

BU mucks K♥ A♥ (a pair of Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 76%, Flop: 85%, Turn: 93%, River: 0%)

BB (Hero) wins $5.93

BB def hand. I think pre and flop is standard with that size. Can't really fold to B30 on flop I guess. B60/70 I'd probably fold though. Turn c/c I guess is normal too. Not a fan of donking into it. It's too obvious and/or polarizing. I need one street value bet, River is good I guess, worst case I B150 or sth like that on river. As played, on that River I can't leave betting up to him, he got mostly medium hands in his range. Like 70% of his hands is 2nd pair or top pair weak kicker. Some busted BD flushdraw too. Anyway, I need to bet. Sizing I wasn't sure, but I guess I got a valuebeater. He should not be very elastic with K9, QJ, K5, KX, AJ and so on. Pretty sure he'd fold a lot to overbet. B75 felt like the upper limit of his calling range to me. Now, he got AK, okay. Maybe got a bit sentimental there. If I knew he had this very hand, I'd overbet. But obv his range is so much wider, mostly he got some medium made hand. Nice river for sure, got lucky this time. Overall pretty happy with my play here.

PokerStars Zoom, Hold'em No Limit - $0.05/$0.10 - 6 players

UTG: $10.91 (109 bb)
MP: $14.71 (147 bb)
CO: $18.70 (187 bb)
BU: $20.36 (204 bb)
SB (Hero): $10.66 (107 bb)
BB: $27.35 (274 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15) Hero is SB with T♠ A♦
4 players fold, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) 9♦ Q♦ T♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.29, Hero raises to $1.44, BB raises to $3.17, Hero raises to $10.36 (all-in), BB calls $7.19

Turn: ($21.32) 8♠ (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($21.32) J♣ (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $21.32 (Rake: $0.96)

Showdown:
SB (Hero) shows T♠ A♦ (a straight, Eight to Queen)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 63%, Flop: 27%, Turn: 14%, River: 0%)

BB shows 8♦ K♦ (a flush, King high)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 37%, Flop: 73%, Turn: 86%, River: 100%)

BB wins $20.36

Now, obviously this is super standard and very likely the best play. But I don't want to be lazy, so I was thinking about c/c flop at first. Maybe on High level poker this needs to be done anyway for some sort of balance? My thought process was simply that I have so much equity against basically any combodraw + pair he can possibly have. And he will have mostly that kind of stuff here. Also I make his toppair without diamond feel super uncomfortable. Like I am so ****ing far ahead, I'd just like to smash it in c/r/rr al-in flop. Even worst case I got my 25-30% against set or made flush, as he had it. Never drawing dead here ever. Plus, since it is SB BB blind battle he can just be lose af on this flop to state an example. It is 107BB deep, so nothing much really. Anyone arguing here that flop should be c/c anyway?

Thanks! I was wondering that too, bit new to actively reading this forum anyway. But there it is hand by hand, right? I can't just smash like 5 hands together in one thread?

There's no rule against it. Post your hand or hands in a way that you would like to see if you were being asked for your opinion on the play, thereof.

I can tell you 10nl on stars is absolutely beatable, no they aren't bots like other sites, I think that's highly unlikely, and everyone sucks! I don't think it's until 50nl I noticed the regs getting slightly better, although they still suck and the pool is still full of a huge amount of fish and whales. The truth is, you're one of them at the moment! Reading what you've wrote and looking at your stats you are 100% one of the fish. That does not mean you will be forever, but you need to put some work in.
I'm not really sure where to start with the advice bit I'll share a little of my thoughts.

It's a small sample you shared that shows your stats, just 23k hands but your fold to 3 bet is 85%, that's high, it is correct to over fold in some spots at the micros however this is still too high, your WWSF is also slightly low, not super low but it indicates you're not fighting enough for pots post flop, this will also be one reason why your red line sucks. Most people's is negative or break even if they're a winning player, but fighting for pots post and pre can help improve it.
I guess my advice is start at the beginning, get a solid preflop strategy down and look at building a solid post flop strat. I'd look at the gto ranges and start there, then adjust them based on your player type and population tendencies, there's some massive pre flop adjustments that need to be made in some spots.
Post flop I'd look at building a solid strategy, simplify to one bet size for each flop texture, simplifying will help you execute with higher accuracy, poker is a game of mistakes and you want to make as few as possible.
Again I'd start with the gto strategies, try to understand why the machine is doing what it's doing on certain textures, how its building its ranges and which hands are being used for what and why. Then try to consider how population plays, how can you exploit their tendencies and adjust those ranges. Because at 10nl 98% of the people you encounter will have no clue and will be massively imbalanced, there's big adjustments that need to be made both pre and post. You'll have to go put in the work and build your strategy from the ground up.

Anyway good luck on your journey

Thanks for this! By now I think I am rather solid preflop. Can still get better, but I improved tons over when I started. I know about the 3bet fold, I call a bit more IP now. However, one of the adjustments I think is to overfold there - 4bet a bit more too, but also undercall against 3bet a lot. They are just too tight when 3betting. WWSF the sample might not be conclusive I guess. I am trying to find turn and river spots where I can raise or call them down a bit more. It is probably the hardest part really to get that right.

I appreciate every advice. Gladly as specific as possible. Thanks a lot again 😀

I can tell you 10nl on stars is absolutely beatable, no they aren't bots like other sites, I think that's highly unlikely, and everyone sucks! I don't think it's until 50nl I noticed the regs getting slightly better, although they still suck and the pool is still full of a huge amount of fish and whales. The truth is, you're one of them at the moment! Reading what you've wrote and looking at your stats you are 100% one of the fish. That does not mean you will be forever, but you need to put some work in.
I'm not really sure where to start with the advice bit I'll share a little of my thoughts.

It's a small sample you shared that shows your stats, just 23k hands but your fold to 3 bet is 85%, that's high, it is correct to over fold in some spots at the micros however this is still too high, your WWSF is also slightly low, not super low but it indicates you're not fighting enough for pots post flop, this will also be one reason why your red line sucks. Most people's is negative or break even if they're a winning player, but fighting for pots post and pre can help improve it.
I guess my advice is start at the beginning, get a solid preflop strategy down and look at building a solid post flop strat. I'd look at the gto ranges and start there, then adjust them based on your player type and population tendencies, there's some massive pre flop adjustments that need to be made in some spots.
Post flop I'd look at building a solid strategy, simplify to one bet size for each flop texture, simplifying will help you execute with higher accuracy, poker is a game of mistakes and you want to make as few as possible.
Again I'd start with the gto strategies, try to understand why the machine is doing what it's doing on certain textures, how its building its ranges and which hands are being used for what and why. Then try to consider how population plays, how can you exploit their tendencies and adjust those ranges. Because at 10nl 98% of the people you encounter will have no clue and will be massively imbalanced, there's big adjustments that need to be made both pre and post. You'll have to go put in the work and build your strategy from the ground up.

Anyway good luck on your journey

You say you are rather solid preflop now, excuse my skepticism, but I can almost guarantee they'll be room for improvement. Obviously I can't see your game, I don't know what you're doing and what adjustments you're making, I don't know what your ranges look like, but I'm almost certain they'll still be big improvements to be made.
Post i'd start at the beginning just like with pre, why jump to the turn and river looking for ways to improve It starts on the flop. It's really hard to get in to specifics without knowing your game, but i'd look at how the ranges are constructed, I think it's important to understand the why. Like to be specific check raising, understand how that is constructed, what role the pairs play on certain textures, what role the draws play and what role the trashy draws like back door draws play, each one has a significant strategic role to play and some more so than others on certain textures. Constructing a solid xr strategy can improve your red line immensely and understanding how it's supposed to look will help you correctly adjust when facing a xr yourself. Once you understand how it's supposed to work you can adjust the ranges and sizings to exploit the imbalances in people's strategies.
I'd say start by looking at the most common spots that come up. Say BU v BB as an example, understand what a balanced c betting strategy looks like and understand what a balanced defence strategy looks like, consider how people actually play, what mistakes are they making when c betting or defending, what adjustments can be made. There's a lot of adjustments to be made.
There's a multitude of exploits v population, I'll give one example of how you can exploit an imbalanced c betting range that would improve your red line.
When c betting flop you want to be balanced, this means you bet a lot of trash, you bet a lot of draws, you bet a lot of strong hands. But you also check all these back at some frequency, you can't bet all your draws as when they complete on the turn then your flop xb range is vulnerable, the same for your strong hands, you can't bet them all, and the same for your trash, you can't bet all the trash as you need some in your turn betting range after flop goes xx. You can get in to specifics of which combinations want to bet at what frequency and why, but you can also simplify and rng if you know the rough percentage of your hand class.
Do you really think people at 10nl are doing this No way, they have no clue. They don't bet enough trash in the flop and they bet too many of their made hands and draws. This means when the flop goes xx the mda shows you have a profitable bluff with any two cards, it's a massively over folded spot. You can punish that imbalanced check back range by over bluffing turn and using some large sizings, even over bet. On a texture for example where you know you have a significant nut advantage and you're up against an imbalanced range you can go really big, often I'm over betting 3 or 4x pot in some spots setting up the river jam. You don't have to go this extreme, but in some situations you can. Of course I do this with value also. But even a 75% bet on turn with all your bluffs and over bluffing river after a flop check back is a good exploit.
Hopefully it illustrates the importance of understanding how ranges are constructed, you want to be the one doing the exploiting not the one being exploited.
This is just one spot, there's an untold amount of situations like this where people are screwing up, both post flop and pre. Understanding the ranges deeply will make it much easier to spot these situations and find the exploits and improve that red line.

Thanks man. I appreciate your help and I agree to everything you said. I am aware of most of these things and I am working on that. Definitely have started more delayed cbetting a while ago and it works very well. x/r flop is still a big issue for me, when it comes to doing it myself, but also facing it. Will see how to find good content on that and try to come up with something simplified. I "disagree" a little but, even though that is a strong word, on the randomizer and balance part, as I think it is not very important to be balanced at all there. Whenever I think I can do either check or bet at some frequency, I will look at the HUD and see whether I find a clue or indication of what would probably be the better choice against given opponent and adjust with that.

There are VERY good regs though on NL10 stars. It is not many, but there are. Then there is 5x more bad regs, mostly nits that are a bit too passive and they defo won't bluff in big pots. However, I can tell you 100% that even some of the nits there think of most of the things you mentioned and try to implement it one way or another. Not saying many of them would do it well, however, there is awareness. It is not like they are morons.

BU vs BB and SB vs BB are spots where population does not believe anything really. They will float almost any2 on many flops. The exploit would be to cbet a lot less with trash on flop, especially on low boards I guess. I do this for a while now. Even after some checkback they are willing to hero call A high and simiilar and quite a lot of rivers still, so it isn't so easy to overbluff tons of trash after they showed some weakness. Many are aware that's going on. It is very much down to player type here. Looking at my HUD there a lot. Someone too nitty with super high fold to R bet values I'll float and bluff the **** out of of course. Defending BB I am overbluffing River by default if flop goes x/b/c, x/x turn. But as I said, many Regs there have adjusted to that and will call the river super loosely.

Overbets on Turn is something I struggle with to know the best occasions still. I figure it needs to be done when my range is polarized, so mostly on drier boards. But ye, I have to look into this a lot more. Really not good with that yet.

Also struggling to know the exact spots where 2nd and even 3rd barrels make sense. A bit with the sizings too, but mostly with the frequency and the exact spots. Some days I got just like the perfect feeling for it and I know the guy is gonna snapfold that turn on 2nd barrel like immediately. On some other days I get raised on 2nd barrels where it is probably some sort of adjustment by them, not just the nuts. That's the worst part, where I know I get outplayed. Ye, well, work in progress.

Thanks again for your help. Feel free to ask for specific stats, if that would help to narrow it down or go into some specifics. And I appreciate repliees on some hands I posted, if you are willing to take the time to take a look. https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/69/on...

I disagree with a lot of what you said, but in messages it's hard to go into lots of details. Not home atm. But I've grinded 10nl on stars. 5nl, 10nl, 25nl, 50nl, I know it well. So I feel I can speak from experience, I also have a good win rate over 5bb/100 over a large sample and steady red line, my WWSF is at almost 52% so what I'm doing is working. I've spent a lot if time studying, looking at solvers, watching poker coaching videos, playing. I mention these things so you don't think I'm just talking nonsense, I guess there's more than one way to win but what I'm doing works.
I'm out at the moment but you're your first point saying you don't want to bet too much trash on the flop, I think that's a mistake straight away. People aren't playing aggressively enough, they don't float nowwhere near wide enough despite what you may believe and they don't find the check raises, and when they do there's an exploit for that as it will be an imbalanced range. That's why balance is important.
When you understand how the check raise range is constructed and how each part of the range has a crucial part to play in the overall strategy you can easily make the correct adjustments. So I think quite the opposite, bet trash more often on the flop, and you do need to have some balance. Just that one thing right there will contribute to your WWSF and red line.
Anyway I better go.
Good luck with your studying any playing, perhaps I'll see you at the tables sometime

Oh, rather solid doesn't mean perfect. Far from it. But I got a decent understanding of preflop now. I came from pre-solver times, so there are differences and I am looking at that a lot. A lot, even preflop, is exploit though. I just not gonna go nuts with QJs or JJ against a nit with 3% 3bet over 500 hands. And there are these. Calling some 3bets I need to learn, yes. But I want to do that almost exclusively IP. OOP I really don't like it much. Population seems to be overdoing this a lot here and I just cant imagine it's any good.

I am not sure when you played there the last time, but I am tell you that there are quite a few that just float anything. They simply don't respect cbets at all. You literally got people with 10% fold to flop cbet there. Almost completely disregarding board texture and flop cbet sizing. Turn is another story. I guess these must just be overfolding turn greatly on 2nd barrel. In particular in Bu vs BB and SB vs BB they just don't fold anything on flop. Just nothing. SRP that is though, 3bet pots are another story.

I disagree with the balancing. It is Zoom as well mostly. They will look at their hand first and foremost, then at their hand again, then at the board, then at their hand again. Then they look at anything else. I need to exploit here, not being balanced. I can definitely cbet a lot I think, but there are spots, as mentioned above, where cbet simply gets close to zero fold eq and then I will commit quite some polarization mistakes doing so often. Trash and made I bet a lot of course, mid value hands with sd value I can use to leave out the cbet a lot. Also on average of course they aren't aggressive enough here to punish this on turn and river. So I will get a lot of nice mid pair vs A high/busted draw showdowns.

c/r I definitely need to look into a lot more, from both sides and in all kinds of spots, positions and board textures. Very hard for me to come up with general rules here.

Anyway, thanks a lot for your help!

Respectfully, if I played 10nl and my graph looked like this after 60k I wouldn't think I was right about anything I was doing lmao

On a helpful note, you mentioned coming from pre solver poker. One of the best values in online poker imo for a losing player is the "From the ground up" course that is on RIO.

Thanks! What are you playing and how does the graph look?

In 2026 I haven't really played any online cash as most of my volume these days is live 2/5 nlhe and I mess about in online sngs/mtts for fun thats where I started my poker journey in 2016. I wish I had access to stars but I do not. I can share graphs from outside of this year but that won't help you, from experience I can tell you that 10nl-50nl you shouldn't have a problem acheiving a >5bb winrate before rakeback. The Dude Abides. put effort into his replies here and I almost agree with everything he's wrote. I'm going to go out on a limb and say without a doubt your redline is so bad because you don't 3 bet enough. The micros are a rake trap and you can almost get away with not cold calling pre at all.

My advice: Stop playing zoom until you have a positive win rate at regular tables.

You say the opposite of the other guy, but ok. whatever man, thanks for your help.

Red Line makes or breaks profit in low stakes- 90% of all fish/average players have the same "Pac-Man" graph with red going down and blue going up.

My advice is to open up your range a little bit pre-flop in position and try to steal as many blinds as you can - but if you don't change something to get that non-showdown line to close to breakeven its gonna be BEYOND tough to get a good bb/100.

you're playing too tight and passive, that's the main issue not 3bet pots. every blind you win and small pot you fight for adds up alot over time. i can help you out if you're serious about committing a decent amount of time to the game, for free of course (pt4/hem with hud is a must)

That's a very nice offer, thank you for that. How to connect?

I am really not sure about being too tight though. I was way looser in the beginning and rake just shot up like crazy. Not sure that is the answer. As in fighting for pots, I am also not so sure, I make a LOT of small bluffs. A lot. A ****ing ****ton actually. Passive, well, I cannot argue with that. I could sometimes fall into passive patterns on turn and river. Very possible that this is an issue. I am much more aggressive than the average regular though, which can be seen in the stats.

Hey again.
Just a quick reply. I also play zoom on stars. Currently at 50nl, looking to keep moving up and taking shots. I started at 5nl, I spent a lot of time at 10nl zoom the exact game you're playing now, so I know how they work.
You mentioned in your reply about not needing to be balanced just max exploit as you're playing zoom, I disagree. The reason for that is it's a careful balancing act, you want to be the one exploiting not getting exploited. Personally I think everyone sucked at 10nl, the rake isn't great at 10nl and improves slightly at 25nl, 50nl there's a slight improvement also, so anyone who's any good will eventually move up. At 10nl I thought everyone sucked, the majority anyway, at 25nl 95% of the people I played against were absolutely awful, and the regs are just okay, most are slightly fishy. And the same with 50nl! 90%+ of the pool are awful, the regs are marginally better but still not great.
That doesn't mean you don't need balance though. The goal is to become the best player you can be correct? Then it's good practice to pay well and learn the theory. If you don't they are people who will be looking to exploit those imbalances in your game. That's one thing I'm very good at, I've studied the game and understand the situations in which people are lacking balance, I then punish it. I also make sure my range is protected in all lines, I want to be able to punish someone no matter the situation.
Even pre flop, you say you're pretty solid there. It would be interesting to see your hands because I'm certain you'll be screwing it up, almost everyone does. Are you using an rng? Are you randomising 3 bets with hands like K4s say BB v EP? I'm almost certain you are not, I am. There's a reason for needing that balance even pre flop, if it's not there at some point you'll run into good players who are very adept at recognising those imbalances and they'll exploit you.
It's the same with post flop. One thing I've done is I got some information on data analysis to see how people actually play. The common lines in which you can maximaly exploit people because they're over folded or they've put too much money in the pot. They almost all come from weak players not having balance and not protecting their range. They reach a point in the hand where there's an imbalance and that's when someone will capitalise on it. V an absolute fish sure you don't need to protected all the time, but I still am I just play around with the frequencies.
Anyway, it's your journey, you do as you wish. But what's worked for me is learning the theory, start there, then it will be much easier to deviate and exploit those who haven't put in the work. I'm constantly exploiting, that's all I do. But that doesn't mean I'm lacking balance myself, I'm constantly adjusting my ranges and frequencies.

GL at the tables.

Also if bankroll isn't an issue if you're able to make a deposit skip 10nl, people are just as bad or worse at 25nl and the rake is a slight improvement, so it's a better grind. I need to save money for the winter months as I'll have no work, so no big deposits for me. I just grind it up.

Thanks again for all that. I will bring an update later today, with the latest graph. For now, let me reply to most of your points on how I see it:

Balance: Yes, I get your point. I guess you are right. Just playing a sound game, value betting when GTO wants to and bluffing when GTO wishes to, is certainly not bad. I never said it was. How I get to get enough knowledge postflop to do so is a bit of a different story. I am trying to study, but it is not that easy. Most of my decisions postflop for now are around my hand strength, the spot and obvious tendencies of my opponents according to the HUD I use. There is no doubt tons of room for improvement. I will have to find specific, concrete spots where I can optimize, I guess it is mostly down to detail. 100% there are very imbalanced and bad plays in my game which can be fixed. In order to do so the main issue would be I guess to find these. In poker, as in most games, it is very hard to become aware of these spots. Our subjective views on something are hard to overcome without very competent help from someone with another view on these things. It is likewise very hard to unlearn patters that we are very used to and don't even think about anymore, but just execute the wrong way, every single time. That's the same with chess for example. I feel that analysis in chess is even easier though! Poker is really ****ing hard when it comes to becoming aware of these things.

Preflop: I said it before and I say it again. By "solid" I don't mean perfect, by no means perfect. I am aware that there most be many situations, even preflop, that I can play objectively better. Do I use a randomizer? No. Probably I should, and will start doing so rather soon. First I need to understand the frequencies of many spots better though, otherwise this is of no use anyway. Do I 3bet a K4s, some Axs, even A5o vs HJ sometimes? Yes. Do I do it at a good frequency? Probably not. I try to see these 3bets as the exception, rather than the rule for now. Instead of a randomizer, I will sit in BU or BB in these spots, where the solver suggests this should be a 3bet at some frequency and then I take the most obbvious ones. If EP raiser or HJ raiser is like 15/11/3 on my HUD, I'd rather refrain from doing so. Likewise, against some spewy fish I'd rather take the call with k5s in BB. Their range, I think, will anyway not be that bad from EP and K5s is obviously bottom of my 3bet range against that. So especially OOP in BB, but even in some BU situations where I'd be IP, I like to think this is not the standard play against this type. Now, when I see a rather loose reg raising from EP/HJ, I assume that is GTO + some more pocket pairs probably, possibly all pockets, a lot of suited connectors too etc. This is the type I will do that 3bet against sometimes. Maybe my thought process on that is wrong, I can't tell. Let me know please.

I do not have any money problems, luckily. Poker is a hobby and any of these limits are peanuts for me. I make infinite amounts of more money in my day job. I suspect and know that the rake on NL10 is too high, NL5 even more so. I mean, I can see it in my PT4, just need to divide the rake by hands and see that it is quite ridiculous. I am not home right now, but I think NL5 it is 9bb/100 and NL10 still around or slightly above 8bb/100. That's a total ****ing joke ofc. NL2 normal tables is 12BB+/100 btw. I think NL25 I got around 6bb/100 rake for now, but just a few thousand hands, so it isn't conclusive maybe. Can check all the exact data later if you want to know. In any case, rake is ridiculous and a big problem. Without the welcome bonus on Stars I would be losing player, including it I got a total of approx 50% RB and therefore I am slightly positive overall. It is still not worth it for obvious reasons of wasting hundreds of hours on a few dollars. But as I said, it is not about the money. It's a hobby for me.

Besides thinking that NL25 will be a little bit tougher, the main thing is that traffic and fish density simply will be a little bit lower. Therefore I must assume there is some kind of equilibrium with that. Definitely, I am not scared of NL25 being full of tough GTO wizard regs yet. That fear I don't have before NL50 or even NL100 at Stars. Can't tell how it really is though, as I got no experience with that. On a Sunday evening it can be quite ridiculous when it comes to fish density and then I certainly sometimes play NL25. But I don't see the point sitting there with the other regs. If I really have to play on a lazy Tuesday afternoon, then I prefer going down to NL5 Zoom even. The pure nit play against the 18/15/6 guys is not for me. Maybe I could beat them better, but in the end it is 8bb/100 rake and I don't trust that I got more than 2bb/100 edge against the average nit reg. Against some of them I will be losing for sure. On a bespoke Tuesday afternoon by the way, the player pool on NL25 zoom can drop to around 30 players. Sometimes even lower. We are definitely not in a poker boom anymore and Stars surely has big problems staying afloat in terms of users, since they really ****ed up on keeping the fish countries like US, Russia, China, Israel, France, Spain, Italy in the pool. Germany, UK is great, but not nearly enough to survive as a poker room in 2026. I hope they at least won't go down the coin/gg path of skyrocketing the rake (and rakeback for regs). This also is a recipe for disaster in my opinion. I know a thing or two about compliance and regulations, so I get that it isn't that easy. But still, if they want to continue operating, they need to think outside the box. Otherwise this won't work for a long time anymore. Online poker indeed is close to being dead. And it is not just RTA/solvers and that stuff (even though, certainly on high stakes that is the big issue). TThe main thing is the ecosystem, which needs a steady fish supply. Without that it's over sooner or later.

Will try to introduce an effective and steady study routine. Part of this is this thread, but I definitely need a study group, maybe on Discord or whatever. If you got any suggestions for groups for NL10 donkers like me that want to mutually discuss their hands, please let me know. When it comes to postflop solver studies, I will have to start doing that at some point as well. Without that it won't get better. Will see, first things first.

A couple of points, 25nl is if anything softer than 10NL! being 2.5x the stake does not mean the players are better, they are just playing for a little more money. I found when I went from 10nl to 25nl the games seemed crazier, there's absolutely people punting all day. There's a few regs who play okay, but not many and they're not doing anything special, believe me the games are super soft. Rake wise it's much better then 10nl, so if money isn't an issue I'd absolutely advocate for moving to 25nl to learn and grind in a better environment.

My second point is scr*w the HUD!!! People misuse them all the time, you need huge samples on people to get anywhere close to accurate information, over small sample sizes there's a lot of noise in the resultst, some things take thousands and thousands of hands on someone to deem anything useable. VPIP and RFI may be useful but even there you have to be careful, especially when looking at RFI by position. A tight player may not be tight at all. So my advice is unless you have a very large sample on a specific stat do not put any weight on it, there's too much variance over small sample sizes. Instead something that is useful to do is to take advantage of the labelling feature, I've set up dozens of custom labels, I'm constantly tagging players and taking notes. That is way more useful than a HUD! Another benefit of constantly taking notes is it stops you from auto piloting and keeps you playing thoughtfully. I still have a HUD and use it, but I'm very cautious and only use it for very basic stats.
Instead take notes, label people and focus on building a fundamentally sound game that maximally exploits people's imbalances

Also yes absolutely use an RNG especially for pre flop. say you know a hand wants to 3 bet 50% of the time, or 20% of the time, how are you staying balanced? It's impossible to play like the machine, but you can roughly remember the ranges and you want to in my opinion not stray too far from the equilibrium strategies pre flop especially when it comes to 3 betting. You want to be on the more agro side when it comes to 3 betting, but at least hit the correct frequencies. This is because if you're not they'll be people looking to exploit that, that's one stat i do pay attention to and have a colour coded HUD set up to recognise how aggressively someone plays from the blinds. If you're not hitting those frequencies some people will notice, not many but if there's good players paying attention they'll see it and look to capitalise. So absolutely learning what the GTO ranges look like and why they exist is important, then deciding how they need to be adjusted in the moment but absolutely making sure to use an RNG.
There's lots of spots where I may want to up or lower the frequency of a certain action, i still use an RNG to do that. Other times it may be pure but a lot of the time I'm just slightly upping or lowering frequencies to exploit a pool or players tendency, you want to be the one doing that not having it done to you because someone has spotted an imbalance in your strategy.

Anyway I'm off back to studying before work. Hopefully that wasn't too rambly.