Shaun Deeb 100k to 1M 17% body fat bet with Bill Perkins

Skipped through the majority of this thread, but what really is the point? Is Shaun not allowed to be fat? He won his bet fair and square, there was no stipulation that he had to keep the weight off.

Despite how terrible some of you view fat people, the fat Shaun Deeb is still clearly the best poker player in the world, the junk food and lack of exercise clearly doesnt impact him, in fact it may make him better....

Someone being fat doesnt impact anyone else. Someone could argue that being fat puts a strain on the healthcare system, which in return others pay for. But you could also say the same about: cigarette smokers, marijuana vape smokers, drinkers, adrenaline seekers.

At the end of the day I dont give two craps what someone does with their life. As long as it doesnt interfere with my freedoms.

Do you believe that being obese is more of a "cultural disease" than a "actual/bodily disease"?
It sounds like you do, otherwise the diseased person would already be obese and not just when coming to the US.

I very much think this is true. The entire culture creates a living space where its much easier to gain weight. And since there are so many other overweight people it will also feel more 'normal'.

But being a cultural phenomenom doesnt make it a disease, which was the starting point of the discussion, whether it should be classified as a disease or not.
You cant cure diseases by just moving to a different culture, you cant catch a disease by moving into a new culture.

We can also discuss whats the definition of a choice or free will but I feel a consessus here is utopian. But one as an individual and a nation/culture as a whole certainly has some level of choice in what they eat and what they serve.

It's a disease not because there is a cultural component to it, but because there are well defined and widely accepted molecular, cellular, and physiological biological abnormalities that underlie it, and both surgical and pharmacological treatments that target those abnormalities, and in so doing ameliorate it. It's why the AMA and many other medical organizations both in the US and out characterize it as a disease.

Type 2 diabetes is characterized as a disease as well, despite the major involvement of lifestyle choices such as diet and exercise, key factors for the development of insulin resistance that is the primary pathobiological underlying cause.

The Mayo Clinic says about type 2 diabetes:
Overweight and Inactivity: Excess body weight (especially around the abdomen) and physical inactivity are primary catalysts for developing insulin resistance.

There are surgical and pharmacological treatments for the desire to rape. Castration and chemical castration (lupron the same drug used as a puberty blocker). There are also molecular, cellular, and physiological and biological abnormalities that drive the desire and behavior of a rapist.

So if it shares all these characteristics that you say make obesity a disease then why is biastophilia (sexual arousal from violating the unconsenting), there now it has a fancy medical sounding name, why is that not a disease??

.....yet

Be brave and say what we all know you believe, rapists can't help themselves because they have a disease.

Yeah? Then tell us what they are. I'm sure any criminologists posting here will get a kick out of it as much as the biologists.

Then you can explain why in your view type 2 diabetes, like obesity, is also not a disease owing to the importance of diet and exercise as determinant factors. And, when doing so, consider that disease is defined as a malady that has a known, identifiable physical cause (like bacteria, a genetic mutation, or distinct biological pathology) and measurable symptoms, which is true for both obesity and type 2 diabetes.

I used to think like you. And in some respects I still do as a libertarian. But I actually strongly dislike this point of view at this stage in my life.

I view obesity as a bit of a social disease. If people are fat everywhere, it becomes more socially acceptable to be fat. And all of a sudden, you have a society of ugly fat people everywhere. And I would far prefer to be around a society of healthy attractive people than fat slobs all day. And I do precisely that. I'm pretty much certain that all else equal, if you have someone genetically equal born into a fat slob society vs a healthy attractive society that you will get different outcomes for this individual, especially over time/generations. So this all matters.

My perfect libertarian world, to a degree, allows you to be fat, or do drugs or whatever, but the types/caliber of people that live there choose not to. Maybe they might do the rando recreational drug at a concert here and there or shitty food occasionally but besides that just live as healthy individuals by choice. That's the freedoms I want people to elect to live under. One where they all individually hold themselves to higher standards by their own choice. Not the bare ****ing minimum.

You already mentioned the healthcare strain. There's so many aspects to this that matter. But even pushing this all aside, it's so much nicer to live near healthy people just for the soul. And as a new family man, I don't want my kids growing up near a bunch of fat slobs thinking that's normal either. I want them growing up near healthy people thinking that is normal.

All this to avoid my question.

I already answered you, that rape is a crime, not a disease. For what it's worth (2 cents), I agree with this consensus. I also recognized earlier that criminal conduct is irrelevant to rational discussion of the disease of obesity.

Rape is not a disease; it is an act of violence, a crime, and a human rights violation. It is not a recognized behavioral or mental disorder, nor is it an uncontrollable biological drive.

I must have missed you answering that, thanks.

I came in here to say this, so well done.

However, as a once almost clinician (finished school, just haven't completed the practicum hours) I would like to add that you're missing the point of what's a disease and what's not.

While there can be qualifications as ro what is a disease and what is not, a lot of this is so clinicians or practitioners can code and bill insurance companies.

It's early and I'm too tired to explain much nuance, but you seem educated enough that you understand this. Chip probably won't.

Phil Hellmuth 3 didn't make it past the fourth orbit. 1.4% was a fantasy nepo grift.

So the point of what's a disease and what's not is so medical practitioners can bill insurance? Huh?

To me, a medical layman, the point of what's a disease is to determine what a disease is or not, not some naming classification nonesense for billing. Like cancer isnt called a disease so it can be billed for insurance, its a disease because it's a negative/abnormal/harmful biological process.

But I'm too dumb to understand whatever nuance you're suggesting.

I think it started with some half-wits talking about how people were "fat shaming" him talking about his weight now, since he is fat again, even though he made a public weight loss bet. That the thread was further polluted with some different half-wits insisting that being obese was a disease and it was entirely outside the control of mentally sound human adults to resist eating too many donuts.

I walked past Deeb at wsop a couple days ago and you know who he looks like? He looks exactly like Mike from Monsters Inc. Big round body and noodle arms.

Are you sure it was Shaun and not just Mike from Monster inc.?

Well you're right, but obesity specifically is an interesting one. I think with that, there's such judgment used by the public (as you see in this very thread the fat shaming), they needed a way to shift the publics perception as well as health care towards having a way to treat it. What I was getting at is it gives them a way to code (bill) something that really requires a comorbitity to exist in the first place. Obesity on its on doesn't carry much weight (haha) when it comes to billing, and you can see why by just looking at this thread. The belief is that something else more severe must be causing it.

Tracking health/reasons for death is important and how everything began as obv insurance companies are very new in the practice of medicine. But today, they have too much incentive to not look for reasons to label such things to have an easier way to bill.

I guess that's what I meant by nuanced. I had just woken up.

wait now, are we saying that obesity is a disease now? how come its only in the us its so prevalent, or not lets say, you guys eating poison on the daily? Diabetes didnt come before the obesity in the majority of the cases, its a consequence of being fat for a long time.