Kc Jh 9h 8c Facing 3-Bet on Kh Qs 3h

fold, it's cheaper. or call to remember the hand and think before raising like this next time

Well, here’s the problem: There’s 3470 in the pot, it’s 1735 to call, and you have 31.71% equity v AXhhAX**.

Further complicating things, let’s say he’s a guy who just ram jams AA to the end regardless of the board or opponent(s)’s actions. I played a tournament against a guy like that; he did the same thing with a pat nine in all three forms of 2-7.

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Honestly, at this point, I’d reraise his last 565 and turn my cards over & hold them tightly after he snaps so I didn’t accidentally misread the board & muck the winner.

But you could probably fold hu oop to his 3bet pf with nothing in the pot. And nobody’s folding AA hu on the flop either, live or tourney, and almost every sim i’ve run for plo o8 big o & plo5 says they shouldn’t if there was a raise pf.

People are suicidal enough to 3-jam bare AAxx on a KQx board? I'm never bluffing in PLO again.

Definitely don't fold pre flop jesus christ.

How well does that hand play HU OOP against an unknown 3bettor 3K deep?

I think once we open, we have to call?
Might as well fold this trash initially if you were to fold to a 3bet.

As played I don't think we ever going anywhere after x/r'ing flop.
Alot of this crap was overplaying preflop then overplaying flop. Once we're in this position we are never folding. I'd assume we have crazy aggro image when we play this, just shipping it in is fine when we have crazy image.

We have tp, a fd and a gutshot.
It's a horrible hand that easily gets dominated but we are already in a world of pain playing liks this. Folding is horrendous once we x/r imho.
It's not end of day if villain has set. We're only F**** when he has tp+nut wrap+nut fd

What percentage of the time does he have something like this?

Yeah, I agree with all this. This hand is another perfect example of the supreme importance of position in PLO.

I 3bet ip vs utg, maniac in btn coldcalls.
I bet/3bet jam vs a maniac w/AAxx on 782r.
guy had a wrap no pair.
In this situation I think you were the maniac.

Further note that if positions are reversed Hero will see the turn with 405 in the pot instead of lolwut 6000.

782r is way different than KQ3hh. Bare AAxx has to worry about A LOT of KKxx and QQxx.

The problem is assuming he only 3b AA.

A good 3b range consists of a lot of hands on this board that include all sets and pair + hands with SD/FD

Running into a hand like AKJx with a flush draw is a disaster

Running into naked KK or QQ is a flip

AA with hearts isn’t great

Naked AA is a win

AA with a gutter is flip

Against a competent player we prolly just get it in and hope we are live cuz we can’t funnel the range enough and always have equity

Against a fish/whale it depends on the player and what we can assume his range is based on prior showdowns.

If ur properly rolled for the variance let it rip. If the money means something to you, fold and take the reduced variance line vs a fish who will certainly give you more opportunities in the session to stack him.

We are never folding in theory.

I'm overrolled for 5/10/20, not quite rolled for 25/25/50. I shouldn't care about the variance. But I'm not going to pretend like getting it in with top pair and weak draws for an 8.5 SPR, 6k pot doesn't scare me. I haven't booked a 10k win in this game yet (I play daytime for 4–6 hours and only buy in for 1–1.5k at a time).

To reduce variance OOP (and prevent myself from potentially making a big mistake), I really should've check-called on the flop. As it turns out, there's not much EV difference between check-calling and check-raising. I just check-raised because I was trying to do the right thing per solver.

Now I'm in a pickle. At the time, I thought it was a clear fold to his 3-bet and never considering calling. In live PLO, I rarely see people 3-betting post-flop without something pretty nutted.

But I only have 500 hours at 5/10/20. I guess it's not uncommon for players to 3-bet here with a hand as weak as AA72 with the A of spades or AAT9.

I've been taught to prefer robust equity making this raise. Yes top pair, one or two suit cards, and other components can make for good raise ops. But these aren't gii combos. They're weaker than that but taking an aggro line that's better than kc and kf. They want some robust equity so they have a chance to generate significant ev when they catch. A nut gutshot is better than what you have here for example. Two clearly bad hearts instead of middling third nutfldr. choose combos that are easy to get away from vs raise and sometimes get a free card in a bigger pot (more valuable) when we check turn bricks. Now you're kinda stuck with enough equity that the math suggests gii thinly. Be sure to range and do out the math because solver is going to be more aggro against itself.

It's not that you shouldnt have kr vs fish imo. They cbet too broadly and for bad sizes. Attacking that seems appropriate. I think you chose too much and not robust enough equity to do it.

You're right. I feel like I've briefly studied this situation before. I like check-calling strong draws like AJ53 with hearts. I block some AAxx that might fold to a check-raise. And I don't want to get it in against KKxx.

I like check-raising strong hands and weak draws with the nut blocker. With strong hands, I just get it in. With weak draws, I just fold to the 3-bet (live 3-bets are supposed to be nutted).

I wasn't expecting to get 3-bet very often. I didn't know that I would have to guess if my hand was strong or weak if I got 3-bet. I guess my hand wasn't weak after all.

My gut instinct was to just call his c-bet. I have a hand with good (but not nutted) equity. But then I tried to do the right thing per solver and raised.

In PLO, it's a disaster to get blasted off good equity. I guess that's what happened here.

So you folded in game??!?
Didn't expect a fold tbh. I doubt villain expect a fold as well.

I don’t think I’ve seen a check / pot / fold in a 3b pot this year.

Munga hit it on the head. Check raise with low equity nut draw instead of high equity triple *hitty (bad pair bad straight draw bad flush draw) which has reasonable equity but hates raise call and raise fold.

Yes, I folded (snap-folded actually). I thought my hand had trash equity against a 3-bet. I would rather get it in with AJ53 with nut hearts.

But apparently KJ98 with third-nut hearts is better than AJ53 with nut hearts. I didn't know (and I'm still trying to understand why).

It’s not….???

EDIT: Well, maybe it is! Certainly doesn’t seem to play better deepstacked oop though.

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Idea for a new PLO Axiom:

Any King-high no pair starting hand must have a Ten in it

EDIT hero’s equity ceiling increases by about 10% and floor by about 50%—obviously back of napkiny—with the Tc instead of 8c. And realizing equity has to be much easier.

You are touching an important subject here, we as poker players must follow our guts, solver is pure math, not emotions, no instincts, not gamble gamble moments etc... So we should remember that we are more efficient at poker than a machine or at least when real world metrics come into play. Plus solver does not consider bankroll management just starting it cause it seems OP guts tried to warn him for preservation.

I'm not saying solvers and study tools are bad or useless, on the contrary i think those are great additions to ones arsenal but i see them as tools complementing us not the absolute source of poker truth.

I think villain has KK a lot after 3!ing pre and playing this way post, maybe QQ. He could also have a wrap and a flush draw, maybe higher or lower. Does he only 3! AAxx. Why do we put him on AA? Don't think AA is most of what he 3!s the flop with.

Maybe flat call the cbet.

I don't think it is likely villain has just a set. If he 3! KK or QQ, he probably has connected cards, so likely has some kind of straight draw, not a completely bare set. He could have AA with the nut flush draw, but he checks the flop or folds to the raise mostly with AA.