ClubWPTGold - RNG discussion

clubwpt gold is the only site around now without a rng certificate actually.

Clubwptgold is not real poker, it’s a perverted sweepstakes game. Once you process a few large withdraws the algorithm will attempt to claw back their money. It might work like a sports book with limiting winning players.

Google AI:

Club WPT Gold (like many sweepstakes models) operates legally under consumer sweepstakes laws rather than traditional real-money gambling. Because they are not a licensed, real-money online casino, they are not legally mandated to undergo the same rigorous, third-party Random Number Generator (RNG) testing required of traditional gaming platforms.

Regulatory Classification:
By using virtual currency (Gold Coins) and offering Sweeps Coins for prize drawings, the site skirts the traditional regulatory licensing that requires certified RNG testing.

No Audits Required:
Without a gaming commission dictating third-party audits (like GLI or iTech Labs), there is no public certificate available for the platform's shuffle mechanics.

Superusing isnt the same as being rigged. I see people dont get that, i guess because superusing is definitely cheating, but again rigging is something very specific meaning the deck is unfair/biased towards players. Like the common theory that good players (which riggies think they are) are being disadvantaged while bad players (which they think they arent, but mostly are) are being helped. An RNG certification proves this isnt the case.

Superusing has been a scandal on AP/UB but its different. Its someone from within seeing the opponent cards. They dont have influence on dealings and dont get more flushes or straights or whatever. Obviously, it was one of the worst scandals in online poker and players left immediately and the sites are extinct (as they should be)

An RNG certification does prove the deck isnt rigged. It doesnt prove there isnt superusing, rta, collusion etc. Its very specific on the fair dealings of cards.

I would never ever play on a site without an RNG certification and would advice anyone to avoid those, even if its just for peace of mind. Although I do get in some locations the options are slim and people decide to "take the risk" anyway. However, if one decides to play on a site without an RNG certification its kinda weird to complain about it afterwards. And its even more insane to complain about it yet keep on playing there. I would also be very hesitant to play a site that doesnt offer hand histories, partly because this is how most botrings & other cheaters were caught...

Your numbered points:
1) its not the case that a rogue operator is handing out a RNG script to be checked, thats not how tests are performed. Millions and millions of outcomes (hands) are being checked for non-randomness.
2) while technically a site could make a fake photoshop rng certificate to place on their site you can always check on the third-party distributor if they have been checked. For instance, if a site says they are checked by Ecogra but on their site there is nothing to be found it would ring alarm bells. But you are only one google search away from finding this out.
3) This is proving what I said before. Its not rigging, you are being cheated by other ways. Bots, collusion, superusing etc.
But I cant believe how many times I have to say this. That isnt what rigging means. And an RNG certification doesnt involve those things. There is no certificate that can prove your opponents arent using a solver while playing, arent messaging each other etc.
Yes all those fall under the category of cheating, but not under the category of rigging.

That’s all fair but Clubwptgold is touting itself as legal poker and using the WPT brand and paid ambassadors like Doug Polk to buy credibility with the community. They don’t advertise the fact that the platform is run by a Cyprus based company called Grand Cru Ltd and not WPT which is owned by Element Partners LLC.

site def not rigged.

def no bot players.

def no site bots...

sitting $250 deep at $0.20/$0.50/$1.00

MP with $100 stack opens to $4, i 3bet AA on btn to $12. SB has a $250 stack also, he 4 bets to $36. he has 20/14 stats, so a bit tighter than my 25/15. MP folds, i call.

FLOP J 9 7 rainbow. he leads $30. i min click it to $60. he insta jams. i call it off.

he has KQ. uhhhh

TURN T obviously.

wait what? so an OOP 4 bet from a tight player and then an insta flop 3 bet jam w/ a gutter that of course comes through for a massive pot.

IB4 yOu WaNt To Be PLaYiNg AgAiNsT ThEm

if someone can explain it, please do. no one playing 20/14 makes that play with a 200BB stack.

if i made a list of the insane beats for the past week, it would crush the 2+2 server! pretty sure my all in ev is minus 5k over 2 weeks. could be variance... or...?

... and his BB aces stack my SB tens preflop exactly one orbit later. lol.

Yeah you seem to misunderstand my concern and point. I’m not arguing against the existence of free will. Sweepstakes poker operates in a legal grey area.

Overall I’m a fan of Doug but he’s shown in the past that he’s willing to put his name on anything as long as he’s getting a paycheck.

For most of my life I have played online poker in a legal grey area, mostly Pokerstars, simply because there wasnt online gambling regelation in my country yet. And those were the glory days :p
I was however exclusively playing on sites with an RNG certification.

From what I could find on google searches clubwptgold is completely legal in 43 states of the usa under sweepstake laws. So if you live in one of those its not a grey area. But yea, it doesnt fall under state-regulated real money poker so thats a bummer. Unless you live in 1 of the 6 states that does have those.
Its crazy to me as an outsider that the country where poker came from isnt up-to-date with laws and regulations concerning but I guess that partly because of the downsides of state seperate politics.

just having a certified RNG doesn't mean anything unless the codebase is reviewed too. (someone else pointed this out too.) and of course, a certain level of trust has to be in place since the code can be modified anytime. im a developer, you can have a legit RNG and still skew the game, not saying they are, but... no rng, no histories, no chat, constant new players seeming to win at crazy rates, many regs talking about it, etc. it all adds up to a bunch of questions.

im aware bad beat stories are obnoxious. just want to highlight the details because when looked at as a whole, it seems questionable.

if you believe there are bots on wptgold, do you believe any are house bots? we know how easy it is for people to code and deploy bots; imagine how simple it would be for a company to do it internally. no histories make it nearly impossible to tell. gotta remember that at the root of "why would they do that" - is the answer of "money".

RNG cerfication checks the outcome of the rng-process as well, so it checks millions and millions of dealt hands
If the codebase or seed is skewed or in any way unfair/biased it will create an unfair/biased outcome (i.e. an unfair non-random dealing of cards)
And with a non-random dealing of cards it would have never passed the RNG certification.
So by certifying the outcomes/hands are dealt fairly you are safe in trusting the codebase/seed.

Concerning house bots, I cant tell if they exist but I can say this. A site can only "pull off" having housebots if the site is untracked and hudless and it would also help if its was sweepstakes rather than a classic certified online casino. So that clubwpt gold falls into all the bad categories there is certainly not a good look on them.

player XForDeception tonight: 5,000 hands played on the site, 35/14 stats, builds his stack up to $1,900 on a $100 NL table.

if you've played, you know how insanely difficult that is to do in NLHE. it was mostly from coolers, with him on the right side every time.

on a 2nd table, he had a $800 stack. barely saw him lose half a buy in from any one single hand.

best part is when the table breaks, it's just he and i left HU. i have about $200 in front of me, he raises, i defend T6s. flop 664, nice. i chk, he bets, i raise since that's the play with stack sizes, he calls. turn 4. i bet big, he calls. river 8. i check. he jams. i mean... it has to be a call, it's HU. he shows 68s to stack me, after literally like 5 hands HU, in hilarious fashion.

in 8 months i've only seen a 20 BI stack size maybe two times. so this relative newbie either had the run of a lifetime, or???

i've never witnessed so much crazy **** as the players that call 1/3 their stack in 4-bet pots and then just miracle the nut run outs, know how often putting 1/3 of my stack in w/ 68s works against KK? it's not a thing! or the players with 500 total hands on the site flopping sets at will when HU vs AA and KK for repeated 400BB pots. those are 3 and 4 bet pots too of course. like god damn, that sure is some friendly RNG! i wish i had sessions recorded, you would laugh at the insane spots, but then i'd have to relive it and prolly jump off the roof.

some of the bluffs are also interesting. players will call a 3 bet pre OOP, then go chk call, chk call, and then lead blast the river all in on non board changing cards. if you're not at least holding 2p vs that line, it's kinda tough to put all the money in. what maniac takes that line, when they could be up against anything uncapped? it's a crazy play that should not often be successful, but, if i could see the cards, i'd be more willing to make that play. or, you know, if it's a house bot and it doesn't really matter if it wins that hand or not, as long as it wins SOMETIMES. sigh.

im just looking for fair games, i dont know if we'll ever actually have them though.

Us too

If you are looking for fair games but decide to play on a sweepstakes site without an RNG certification you are not looking that hard

I would ask you for evidence of these numbers but I know wptgold doesnt have hand histories to import and how.
Therefore a different question, how are you so certain on all these numbers when there is zero documentationof it?

Like if I played 15k hands untracked I wouldnt know I was in flush vs flush 75 times etc, I would certainly need a tracker to give me the (close to) exact numbers
So are these numbers plucked out of thin air or do you keep tallies?

It also doesnt help that I've seen you claim the RNG is rigged on about 3 other sites here as well (for which hand histories can be shown but you refused). Its either a worldwide conspiracy of multiple pokersites rigging the deck against you or you might not be at the level of poker you think you are.

Didn't realize you were responding to me but I don't need convincing. I'm of the opinion something is very off on this site and while I can't put it into words I have a handful of irl friends who have been playing poker for well over a decade too saying the same thing + Pokerarb posted itt and he said the same. That's good enough for me.

Now with that being said. You guys aren't doing yourself any favors throwing around terms you clearly don't seem to understand.