The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Do you actually know what a fact is?
Because a fact does have evidence, thats exactly what makes it a fact
You havent shown any fact whatsoever
Which is strange because

Apparently you have more than one smoking gun that you keep hidden :p
You probably dont know what a smoking gun is either so

Tell me,
Why do you keep these undeniable pieces of evidence of the unfair system hidden from everybody?🙂

And regarding you chickening out on a HU
Why are you afraid of this midstakes loser who didnt move up?
Is it because you never moved up from microstakes perhaps because you sound just like TheWaddy LOLOLOL😃
Go make up a better fairy tale

Currently I play on Clubwptgold which has no real access to hand histories. It only temporarily saves the hands you’ve played at a given table in a given session. Hypothetically, a bot ring could be used to play differently against different players based on various factors, artificially changing winrates over large samples of hands.

I cant play Club WPT Gold because of country restrictions so cant say much about them

But from what I hear its quite a sketchy site.
I am not even sure they have an RNG certification, for what its worth I would never play on a sweepstakes model site without hand histories
But perhaps if you are from the US there isnt really an alternative?

When I said "Then why does every major site have hand histories?" I did so under the stance that club wpt gold isnt one of the major sites. I am referring to GG, stars, ipoker who are a lot bigger than club wpt gold on volume.

But if I had options I wouldnt play there, sounds like cheaters paradise (not per se from within)
Bot rings on other sites were always caught by data, often by other players or with the help of other players. This seems impossible on club wpt gold.
Btw, all the caught botrings were outsiders, never house bots so they arent likely to beat winners and divide among losers.. they are likely to get every cent they can get for themselves

You're just not very bright, and you still have no idea what I'm talking about, yet you keep posting know-it-all definitions. 😃 trolltard

I took “smoking guns” literally! What’s that supposed to mean? Think about it, maybe you’ll figure it out. Taking words literally has nothing to do with the figure of speech. “Gun...smoke...” Get it? I got it.

If I would challenge you to a high stakes live hu you would reject it anyway. First you don't have the money and 2nd...
You don't have the money lol
Stop crying for it I have much more important stuff going on in life than online poker for change.

Stick to the topic. Your arguments are based on assumptions. Fabricated crap dude. A fact! 😃

What comes next, you want to distract about definitions again? Own up to your defeat; stop whining trollo. Trollant 😃

Yet you chicken out playing me

1knl is fine right? Why you suddenly say live hu, its unlikely we live close.
But online we can start right now and reading your claims you are flushed with cash

Cmon everybody totally believes you are a high stakes crusher who looks down on midstakes players. No way you are going to pussy out this challenge right?
You talking the talk but cant walk the walk? unfathomable!

You had the time to create another account here, post a bunch of ramblings with zero backing.. you clearly dont have that many important things going on. You have the time for some 1knl vs a fish like me.

Or are you too busy delivering pizzas?😀

People still dont know what regulators do

They give out licensing for which they can make demands. One of them is that they only give out licenses to a site with an RNG certificate.

But those certificates are not being offered by the regulators for obvious reasons, they are offered by 3rd party statistical experts who test the hands dealt over millions of hands.

Sending your hands to a regulators wont do you any good, its not their area. If you have a DB of 500k hands you are way more capable of showing the rig than they would be. They are just lawmakers essentially, not poker experts.
Btw, they say that you agreed to their terms & conditions so there is nothing you can do. Do you think in the t&o of the pokersite is says that they are allowed to tamper with the RNG and redistribute funds accordingly or that they offer a fair game?

You say that in your 500k DB there is a "massive mathematical anomaly over a huge sample"
If you were willing to share that with regulators, can you show it here? Then people can judge clearly if the site you are playing on is indeed rigged...

Yes I have been in Igaming for a while. Started from the bottom and am in a very senior role now.

I am by far the most in the know person in gaming you ever talked to or will ever waste time on talking to you.

You have some preconceived ideas that are not entirely wrong and not uncommon. You have however is contrast to me no industry insights.

In regards to rest of your drivel. There is no position that would in your mind mean what I am saying has substance.

Either I am to lowly of a foot soldier to know or obviously compromised as I am one of the evil guys at the top.

Unless of course I would be sining a tune you like to hear in that case any position or that I once heard my uncle say something would be enough to make what I say a smoking gun.

You are a clown mate.

What the hell did you tink they would do?

No regulator will look at a 500k hand sample from some random dude. Why would they?

Following your logic, why wouldn’t the poker room just rig the profile of some random guy, given that there is no institution to protect him as a consumer? And is this laboratory independent, or is it the same as just buying a degree?

The cost of hiring people to create a rig of a random profile and then pay them enough to stay quiet about it (otherwise the site risks existence) are a bit higher than the "benefits" of slightly rigging a player profile

There is absolute zero incentive from the site's perspective and everything to lose

Hi GGruinedPoker,

its been a month since you promised to "dedicate every minute" to collecting and presenting your data that would 100% prove poker is rigged (all your words)

Since a month of dedication goes a long way I was just wondering...

How much data have you collected and could you please present it to us 😀

It’s actually the exact opposite. Running a clean online poker room is a losing prospect because the regs will quickly destroy the fish and move on to the next room. Cheating players to combat this combined with offering casino games like slots is the only way they can provide some false promise of infinite growth to investors and potential shareholders. Poker is generally not a growing market as players leave quicker than they come in, only (maybe) recently counteracted by interest from Asian markets.

Live poker rooms are in a different spot because many of them are subsidized by casinos and liquor sales and regs are limited to 1 tabling.

There is nothing for them to lose as there are barely regulating bodies overseeing them and if anything actually came out the people in charge would get a fat pay out and move on to the next company.

How does that even apply to rigging a random player profile?

What you describe would entail rigging all winners and losers profiles, which would be a huge operation hard to keep secret and a very easy thing to prove with a simple tracker we all have access too (if you think/know this is happening please show us😉)
Also, if this is happening how would you explain the results of a Linus or Prodigy or on the other side of the spectrum, a Paisting? They wouldnt exist in this hypothetical situation. Or they would have moved on, which they didnt

If you honestly believe the only way to run a profitable online poker room is to rig it you have a lot bigger issues, they just need volume thats it.

I play multiple sites and new fish come in every day, its not like pre-black friday numbers but its still very profitable to be a decent reg.

And this has been posted before but online poker numbers arent declining at the rate you are implying... One way of a site to lose a massive amount of customers quickly however is to be have someone show proof of that site rigging the deck in favor of bad players and disadvantage good players (and btw, why would the regs stay on a site like this and not move on to a non-rigging room where they arent disadvantaged??)

Idk what you’re talking about. “Decent” regs are making the same money as fast food workers. Linus, Prodigy and Paisting are all huge outliers. I’m not sure why you keep insisting any of this would take a Herculean effort when these systems have been deployed in gaming for over a decade.

You seem to be under a naive and false pretense that people engaging in nefarious igaming practices are in danger of facing legal repercussions. If they don’t evade taxes or launder money they will probably never be investigated lmao. And again if anything went awry, the guys making decisions would be perfectly fine and find themselves managing another gaming business within 5-10 years.

Hai guyz,

It has been a long-time since I have posted in this thread, so just wanted to say, "Hi!"

Hope y'all are well!

I think we've found the heart of the issue here

In your book a decent reg is someone who makes the same money as a fast food worker

In my book a decent reg earns well above median/average

Im not saying it would take a herculean effort, I say the risks outweigh the rewards extremely

And about Linus, Prodigy, Paisting and people similar ore just below/above you clearly didnt get the point
You say the RNG of all these sites are making winners win less and losers lose less quickly..
If thats true, there wouldnt be those outliers, the rigged rng system would combat it.
And yet do exist, my question is... how?

I’ve told you multiple times now I’m speaking on Clubwptgold where there is no access to hand histories. It’s like I’m speaking to a brick wall. Either way your insistence on applying overly simplistic logic to make wide sweeping claims is silly and a waste of time.

These systems have been used in the gaming industry for years and they don’t entirely prevent winners and losers. Flattening winrates slightly wouldn’t create an environment where no one wins or loses. You’re either extremely thick headed or being purposefully obtuse.

That graph is also showing that online poker numbers have stagnated or declined slightly despite supposedly benefitting from a spike in interest over Covid. Online gambling is exploding while online poker is slowly dying and failing to capture any of the windfall. That’s a terrible outlook for the future and potential investors. Furthermore, the graph shows that GGPoker cannibalized pokerstars, offering more support to the notion that online poker sites are fighting over scraps in an unsustainable environment.

This is all ignoring obvious economic factors such as inflation. My hunch is that when adjusted for inflation, online poker is much smaller today than it was during the peak and it’s not trending upwards.

If there are new players every day shouldn’t the lines in that graph all be going upwards?

Because there has never been a case of someone running a rigged poker site.
All known incidents were caused by individual bad actors and were unrelated to RNG.

There have been multiple scandals involving poker operator employees and insiders that didn’t involve “rigging the RNG”

That can happen at any company, but unlike other industries, an actual operator or ceo has never been involved in making the games unfair.

They’ve abused super user accounts, stolen player funds and allowed bot rings to infest their platforms but yes, there has never been a known instance of a site rigging the RNG. So for GGpoker you’re trusting that the Isle of Man gaming commission is running statistical analysis on their entire hand history database. And now sites are starting to layer their AI powered fair play systems which we’re just supposed to trust are working for the player’s benefit despite essentially being black boxes. Is there a single tech industry where regulators have successfully kept pace with operators? The examples are probably scarce.

Way too hot this weather. Im struggling even now at midnight. I personally blame Slugant. Admittedly i have literally zero actual evidence whatsoever on my wild accusation here other than it makes me feel better, but hey...since when did that matter in this thread, seems thats the way forward to blame pretty much anyone or anything ahead of taking responsibility or being able to look after oneself. Therefore Slugant = to blame for climate change (he prob shot JFK also btw)
On side note, may go get job at mcdonalds tomorrow. Flipping burgers is apparantley a better living than what i do now. Excellent. No more worrying about studying and all that s***.

Yea, you'd be surprised how many professional poker players are trading in their jobs to sit in the McDrive booth to make the same money + benefits 😃😃

Imagine calling yourself "DoyleBrunsonFan" but with every post you confirm that you don't even understand the simple, basic aspects of Poker....