PAHWM - Mis-reg donks huge then gives up a tell.

Fold. Speech is an indicator of strength, unless/until proven otherwise, and overbet donk on a wet board is a misreg "I can't let them draw out on me" move.

There was a straddle OR two limps? Seems like a pretty huge difference.

I don't think many people play nutted hands like this. I would expect he has something good-not-great (AQ, KQ, QXdd, AXdd, maybe KT, maybe some 2p) and just wants to take down the pot without playing a bloater OOP on a dynamic board. The table talk also seems weak to me.

I would probably just GII versus this guy. You have emergency equity if you are behind. If he has the nuts, make a note on him and attack boards where he doesn't donk, or donks small.

I'm not 100% positive if it was two limps or a straddle + 1 call.

I am positive I raised to $25 and got three calls. I wouldn't open to $25 here unless it was over a straddle + 1 call or two limps.

The $25 open is big, even for me. I had a reason. Just don't remember for certain what it was, other than I'd noticed the player two to my left had been VPIP'ing super wide since I'd stacked her.

Weird. He's talking smack to you? Isn't she still to act too?

What a (word not allowed). I hope you ended up busting him.

AFA the hand (and I might've gone bigger pre, given the dynamic and you getting hit with the deck), giving V: 55/JJ/QJs/T9s/AQdd, H has 38%. 26.4% if I restrict V1 to T9dd. 55/QJs only, 22.4. 28 if QJo too.

First thought about just getting it in, though if you wanted to call and see if V2 got frisky/improved your suckout odds, OK. You have outs, and while V1 probably has something---Venice is right about the speech read in general, and especially with Wannabe Table Captain in particular---showing you're willing to GII with an OP may pay off later. Maybe I'm optimistic? Plus, it's 'only' another 140-ish bb here.

I was thinking the big over-bet donk multi-way was insanely nutted. I was just wrapping up the funeral for my hand when he started talking.

I'm not sure I agree about speeches. I think they're indications of strength when someone tries to sound weak before acting. But when they act first, then start talking as an opponent is tanking, it's more ambiguous. I notice many, if not most players will stay silent if they're hoping for a call, but try to act strong when they want us to fold.

I'll sometimes reverse the tell and act strong when I am strong. Sometimes I'll call clock. Usually I'll do this when I know my opponents are tight and have stronger ranges.

But my observation has been that most opponents won't make a peep when they're nutted and are praying for action. If they're acting strong, it's often because they're weak.

Like, if V had the nuts, why would he try to rush me to a decision when I'd already been in the tank? I could be getting ready to fold, and his antagonizing might push me off the fence, especially when his line already looks insanely strong.

I thought it was weird. Especially since I'd only been thinking about 15 seconds, give or take.

And yes, she is still to act behind me.

I'm not 100% certain what led to my $25 open size. I recall that I was still trying to calibrate given the fact that there were one or two people straddling intermittently, multiple players to my right limping, and she was calling my opens super wide.

Like, since I stacked her, she called my opens with A6o and Q-rag off. It felt personal after seeing those hands shown down.

I didn't think he had much if any bluffs here, but if he did, they'd likely be high equity, like pair + draw or combo draws.

Part of why I was tanking was that I was expecting him to jam turn, and I was trying to figure out what odds I'd need, depending on whether or not V2 over-called, and what turn cards I'd want to see or not want to see. Plus just thinking about what I'd do (after vomiting) if she raised behind me.

I was thinking that if his range is just QJ, 55, and AQdd, and if he's jamming all turns, I should just fold. Was just about to slide them in when he started flapping his gums at me.

I was thinking about 15 seconds, give or take. It didn't seem excessive to anyone but V.

I'd been at the table about an hour. I opened the first hand I was dealt for 5BB's, 3B the second hand before folding to a 4B, and stacked an opponent by raise-4B-jamming with AK over her 3B pre. I was VPIP'ing around 30%, playing entirely raise-or-fold from every position.

We'll have to agree to disagree about how aggro I am.

Yeah, I don't think he's nutted. I think he has a strong vulnerable hand. I think you ranged him pretty well. Most likely top two, with a bit of 55, AdQd, and a couple of silly Q5 or J5 combos. Basically no bare draws take this line, imo.

As for the speech, it's a show of comfort to speak at all. While sometimes it's intentional throwing of false tells, I lean strength until I've seen a V do it with BS unless they are just a chatterbox who never shuts up.

I would overlimp the HJ as per my style.

One of the reasons i like the overlimp is I really can't make a huge mistake no matter what happens. But raising at a loose table will often put me in a spot where I can make a massive mistake. My instincts here is too sigh fold. The SPR is semi-small 4.5 but we offered 3 villains fairly awesome 20+:1 IO preflop so I'm not super pumped about committing with one pear. And not only are QQ/JJ easily in play, but I'm literally never surprised to also see KK+ here too. However, there is still a decent chance we make a huge mistake and fold the best hand in a huge pot. But mostly that's what I'd lean towards doing.

GpukinginmymouthashewindmillsmeAQafterIfoldG

I don't think $25 is a particularly large iso in a $1/$3 game when it is playing very loose. I typically iso $12-$15 over one limper in my $1/$2 game and $25-$30 in my $2/$5 game, then add a bb for every additional limper. IMO $25 should basically be a standard iso size over two limpers at $1/$3.

If there is a $6 straddle and one limp ($16 dead in the pot) it completely changes the math of the hand, and I would iso to $30 minimum. Seems like the type of thing that we should be keeping track of in hand notes, as well.

I think this is a very strong hand strength tell.

I think it's an easy fold unless you have a read that villain often punts for stacks with random hands.
V has all the sets, combo draws, QJ. We aren't really ahead of his range, we are 50/50 at best vs his combo draws range.

Speech, especially annoyed or irittated speech, is defo strength tell. Fold.

All I'm certain of is that you can't call hoping for the turn to improve you or that he will not fire another big bullet. The only call you can have is if you are confident you're ahead and you're trapping. Your post here shows that's not the case.

So that leaves fold or raise. His stack is 450, it's fold or shove.

I've been wrong before, but he might have only TPGK and not want a call. He expected a snap fold figuring his sizing would leave you nothing to think about.

I do not think he has a nutty hand like a set because he would try to milk that, not scare you away. Same with top 2.

This is me being my unprofessional poker self, but it's early in the session and you clearly have a skill advantage over the table. If we get whacked, we can make it up later. Shove.

But I wouldn't make that same decision 7 hours into a session where I was only up 50 bigs and was facing felt if wrong.

Edit to correct for V's chip stack.

Maybe this is a minor point, but I will make it anyway. I would rather not have the Kd here. We're blocking FDs and combo draws we want the Villains to have, as well as many SDs.

Yes, it's nice for backdoor equity but we really want one of the Villains to have it. As described, V2 is FOF post, so I interpret that as not floating or making huge and/or clever semi-bluffs.

V1 as described would have 3b preflop with JJ and QQ, so I suppose that increases the chances that V2 has one of those 6 combos. There's only 2 QJs left now. She might have 3b her QJs preflop anyway. I suppose she can have 55. I think we're probably ahead of her.

We have invested 25 here. I view the 25 as an investment in your future that will pay off. Just fold and get him later. In my experience, speech from older guys is strength. I could probably find a call here if I didn't hold the Kd.

Hopefully the Asian lady will stack the grumpy geezer.....

I agree the villain has a decent, but vulnerable hand. If he had a set, he'd be willing to give you all day to call. What is more concerning to me is that he was looking away after the bet. That means he isn't too worried. Time to let it go.

I said "nutted" meaning QJ / 55 mostly. Hands that have KK in rough shape. At best, I think we're slightly ahead of AQdd, or trying to figure out the math on making a better 2P by the river if he's screwing around with Q5 or J5.

I definitely didn't put QQ into his range, but as I was thinking he might occasionally show up with JJ. I somewhat discounted JJ as a donk because if he's going to slow-play it as a flat call pre, my brain hurts trying to figure out why he'd donk, since I could have QQ, but maybe it's a "f**k it" donk, if that's a real thing.

I suppose if he shows up with JJ, then he maybe could have QQ. I just tend to think mis-regs are going to go for the obnoxious check-raise with QQ here. I could be wrong.

I think the speech tell is glaringly obvious when someone tries to sound weak, the old "time to go home, so I guess I'm all in pre" with AK+ thing. When someone acts first, then starts speaking belligerently while their opponent is thinking, I think it can be strong, but it can also be weak, depending on the context.

Like, here, if V was annoyed at me before the hand even started, maybe he tries to goad me into making a loose call so he can value own me, or maybe he's hoping I'll fold so he can show me AQdd or whatever, as if that's somehow supposed to make me feel bad about folding AK or whatever I have that isn't strong enough to call this insane over-bet donk into three opponents.

To be fair, he was kind of a semi-chatterbox. Not to the point that he wouldn't shut up, but no one in their right mind would love having this guy sitting next to them, constantly making $hlt-reg noises, which was what he was doing.

I mean...I thought he was a jerk. Others at the table didn't seem to be going out of their way to engage with him. After this hand, both card-room staff and other regs told me he's a reg and usually in a bad mood, so take that for whatever it's worth.

I'm not gonna lie and say I was thinking "What would the geek do here", but I was leaning towards a fold, if it makes you think I'm less out of my mind.

You'll get no argument from me, sir.

This turned out to be a fairly wild session with a number of large pots contested. This hand was early in the session, so my recall of all the details isn't perfect, I'm afraid.

I am 100% certain the pot was $100 (plus blinds / minus rake) going to the flop, because I raised to $25 and got three callers.

I do remember there were multiple times during the session when I was trying to figure out what size I wanted to raise based on how loose the table was playing and how much loose action was happening in the 2-3 seats directly to my left.

I wish I had a better recall of the pre-flop action. Sorry I do not.

I think the looking away from the table is a strength tell before action gets to them. Once they act, looking away may just be indifference or a desire to avoid eye contact.

When there's more money behind to play for, I think they often will watch their opponents to see if they can pick up any tells. So when they look away after they bet, I tend to think it's less polar, more of a condensed mergey range of middling value or good semi-bluffs.

The antagonistic speech can go either way. It seemed in line with his personality, from what I'd seen. To me, it seemed like he expected everyone to fold and the pot to be pushed his way, so he was annoyed that I hadn't folded yet, which I'd think would mean that he wanted me to fold, not call.

I was about to. His irritation got me thinking about it more.

You're allowed to be unprofessional. No one here or at the card room can take away your birthday.

You're one of a few people here who want to get it in on the flop. Honestly, it never crossed my mind. For me, this seemed like a clear spot to fold until he started acting like he wanted me to fold, which pushed me towards thinking I might want to call.

Funny, I was thinking about the Kd in game, trying to figure out if it was good or bad or meaningless. I didn't think he'd show up with AKdd and play it this way, so I was leaning towards meaningless, or good, in the sense that if I was up against 2P or a set I had additional BDFD equity, and if I was up against a flush draw with AQdd, I was holding one of his outs.

(HAND CONTINUES)

Okay, so...opinions seem pretty evenly divided between folding and jamming. Hopefully I'm staying on brand when I admit I did what I now expect is the most disappointing thing to everyone here, and called.

Asian girl folded, so we're HU to the turn.

The turn was interesting...

PRE - H raises to $25 and gets three callers.

FLOP ($100) - V donks $140. Folds to hero. Hero calls. V behind folds. HU to the turn.

TURN ($380, V has around $285 behind) - QcJd5d 5c, pairing the board, and adding another FD.

V now x's, which I wasn't expecting.

Hero?

Probably doesn't matter, but I also have the Kc in my hand, which I'd think would make us less concerned about the new BDFD potential.