QQ facing a BTN 3-bet

I think 4B'ing QQ from OOP is reasonable in general. We might debate it depending on your reads, the stack depth, the bet sizing prior to your 4B, your 4B sizing, the positions, whatever.

Were you planning to call off if he jammed?

In theory, once you get over around 30% of effective stack depth, you're pot committed, and you should call off the rest, or just jam yourself. But that doesn't really address whether you want to get called or want folds. And it can be a low stakes exploit to break that threshold with your raise size, by raising to an amount that is over pot committing but not all in, when you are hoping your opponent doesn't fold.

Any reads on BTN? A lot of low stakes players will 3B too tight or too wide.

His 3B size is a little small. That might be a sizing tell, indicating a weaker hand. But it could also be a reflection of his shorter stack. Or he could be hoping to induce you to 4B because he's got AA.

If you were planning to fold to a jam, we might reconsider your 4B size. In theory a 4B doesn't need to be 3x. You might have accomplished the same goals by making it $75, or even min-clicking it.

The minimum you could raise to would be $48, which is right at 30% of his starting stack depth. It would still be hard to fold to a jam over a min-click, if we think clicking it induced shenanigans. But if we go with low stakes population reads, and assume a 5B jam is always AA/KK, we could make an exploitable fold, maybe.

As played, it seems fine if you think he might call or get it in with worse often enough, and you're planning to call. If you were thinking about 4B-folding, I'd question it, and might think you'd be better off calling and playing your hand as a bluff catcher.

I think a position (button) 3bet is a wider range that can’t stand a 4bet and will fold most of the time. That’s never a bad thing

We triple size 3bets, but I’m not sure that’s the best move with 4bets - I’d probably make it 75

With everyone folding and leaving you alone with villain, a call would also be reasonable.

The best story to tell depends on the villains that you face!

- we need to know styles -
For instance, if villain is aggro, a call is good because he will keep betting. While if he’s passive, we have to put the money in, raise and hope for a call.

Yeah, basically I wanted him to call. Given the level we were playing at, I thought his range could include hands like JJ, AQs/AQo, TT, and possibly even worse. Still, I am not sure whether making that kind of assumption is profitable in the long run.

He had only just sat down, so I had not had time to develop any reads. I guess I should stick to an EV-based approach before making player-specific assumptions. That said, since he was short-stacked, probably the shortest stack at the table, I thought he might be willing to make that move with plenty of hands worse than mine.

Also, the position was a big deal for me in order to make that kind of decision, I was on early position.

So, I think we need to consider our raise sizing if we want him to continue.

You made it $90 when he's only starting with $160. He should just jam or fold. It's hard to find a range that would continue as a flat call rather than a jam.

It's kind of a disaster if he does flat call, and we end up check-folding on an ace-high or king-high flop, or if he manages to get away from a hand like AK on a Q- or J-high flop, and we don't get his last $70.

Your non all-in raise size is a low stakes exploit that is good when you have AA and are hoping to get the rest in on any flop. It's a bit dicey with QQ.

He might have TT/JJ or AQ in range, but I'd think those hands aren't always going to 3B, and would sometimes fold to our 4B. Obviously we're happy getting it in vs those hands, as well as AK.

The problem is if he's folding TT/JJ and AQ, and only continuing with AA/KK/AK, which is how he might respond when we 4B less than all in. If we just jammed, he might call off with JJ/TT and AK/AQ, and maybe even some lower PP's that would be flipping vs AK.

The point is, if we're going to pot commit ourselves, we should probably just jam pre, to hopefully get our money in good, or at least against a range that has some worse hands in it. A non all-in raise size lays V a better price to flat call, see a flop, and possibly play perfectly in position.

At $160 effective I’m fine GII with QQ against a lot of V’s and turbo folding vs others. Default (you gave no reads), try to GII.

Yeah, I like your point. So in this spot, would you prefer either a smaller 4-bet or just jamming preflop?

Looking back, I agree that my $90 sizing puts me in an awkward middle ground. If he flats, there is not much left behind, and it becomes hard to play certain flops well out of position. If an A-high flop came, I probably would have still felt committed at that point.

One reason I did not jam was that there was still another player in the hand who had been playing quite loose and covered me, so I was not fully comfortable putting everything in immediately. I also did not really like just calling the 3-bet because I would have been out of position.

I wouldn't lose sleep getting it in for 80BB's with QQ playing 1/2. I'd have to have some sort of super-read on V to want an escape hatch. Like, if he's an OMC, I might just flat call, or fold, or click it back and fold if he jams. Otherwise, I'd probably just 4B-rip it.

If we're deeper, deep enough to play and maneuver post-flop, I'd consider the 4B sizing more, and might find reasons to want to go bigger or smaller, depending on my reads, the stack depths, the positions, etc.

Maybe occasionally I'd think that BTN was 3B'ing to 2.5x off a short stack because he was hoping to induce a light 4B. But I've gotten it in for $500 pre with QQ in similar spots, and not lost much sleep over it.

Once you're pot committed, you're pot committed. Crying won't help you, and praying won't do you no good.

If I read the OP right, the other player would have folded to BTN's 3B, leaving you HU when action gets back to you.

That's part of what makes this spot tricky pre. If action went UTG limps for $2, you raise to $12, and then he 3B's to $30, he's taking a chance that the limper cold-calls the 3B and you'll be getting a great price to get in there with a wider range.

Like, if he's nutted, he's incentivized to raise bigger, so he can get this HU and get the rest in on most flops. You're not incentivized to 4B as much if the limper calls, unless you also have a big hand.

I dunno. If I've seen an opponent play enough, and think he's looking to double up or go home with some ace-rag BS, I'll oblige him. But I'm not letting him see the flop for $30 when I have a premium. If he wants a chance to double-up, he's going to have to get it in with me pre.