Shaun Deeb 100k to 1M 17% body fat bet with Bill Perkins

Were these morbidly obese individuals born like that? Doubtful. Your body reacts to shoving insane amounts of food into it. Some small % of currently obese individuals were born with a high propensity for it. Most just have terrible lifestyles and diets.

You've neglected the part where food quality and availability impact a person's cravings and tendencies whether to overeat or not. Food noise, is the term I've seen used. It helps explain why different countries and different cultures have varying degrees of morbid obesity in their ranks.

"Just say no to drugs" didn't work. Just saying no to overeating high caloric and craving-evoking types of foods hasn't worked, either. Nutritional and exercise counseling do help some obese people, and those taking GLP-1 mimics to lose weight are established to do a better job of it with such counseling than without it. But few get their body mass index into the normal range on counseling alone, especially compared to taking the hormone mimics that directly impact brain circuits and brain-gut pathways involved in satiety, cravings, and the like. For instance, the mimics cause more than a 90% reduction in the development of type 2 diabetes in overweight prediabetics, compared to nutritional and exercise counseling programs alone.

I agree that societal factors are a huge influence on health. I think socioeconomic class may be one of the biggest predictors of overall health, don’t quote me on that. Access to healthy food, gyms, outdoor spaces, time and resources to be able to focus on health. These factors are extremely important. It is much easier to be healthy and fit if you’re financially secure. It still doesn’t make it a disease.

In other words not a disease. People are choosing to gorge themselves and barely move.

Namis, I dont really understand your point . Is it just that you think taking ozempic (sp?] Is the way to go?

Are these therapists and nutritionists monitoring all of these obese people and making sure they're following through?

I was skinny my entire life until my early 20s when I had been binge drinking and eating taco bell for a few years. I was prob 40lbs overweight, and I got tired of my brother giving me ****. So....i went to my basement and started lifting weights. After 4 days a week of weight lifting, basketball twice a week, and cutting out fast food (never drank soda)...that Weight was gone. After 6 months I went from 222 to 185. Then eventually 175. Never been heavier since.

Guess why? I maintained that regimen and also stopped drinking completely. If youre talking about seriously morbid obese individuals, they have bigger problems (ha!)....but its the same formula.

Depends on what those decisions are. If they're based on delusion and a sign of dementia, then yes 100% a pathological disease or disorder is involved. The deciding factor as to whether poor decisions are disease-related or not is whether there is an underlying disease process/brain pathology behind them. And has been evidenced time and again and in numerous ways, overeating to the point of morbid obesity in most cases stems from broken signals that normally control food cravings, feelings of satiety when eating, and the caloric setpoint that regulates caloric intake and use. Ask a few dozen morbidly obese people who've taken 6 months or more of a semaglutide analog and nearly all will confirm this.

I think everyone is arguing two different things.

Yes people have eating disorders

However, i think some are saying that fat people claim when they exercise and eat right they just dont lose weight like "theyre supposed to" and that they are physiologically different.

They're wrong, and if they followed the correct regiment they would keep the weight off.

I think eating to the point of obesity does change your body and brain chemistry but the proportion of overweight people who were born with or developed some type of disease leading to intense weight gain is minuscule compared to the people who simply ate way too much processed food and never moved. After you’ve spent years stuffing your body with excessive amounts of **** and not exercising it can lead to long lasting negative health changes.

So it does look like obesity is officially classified as a disease. I’m not anti-science but my gut tells me there’s a good amount of politics behind that designation.

all this

This is correct imo. Its just another addiction really. Im an addict, spent time in rehab for heroin and crack in my younger days, this transformed into alcoholicism. Do i believe i have a disease...dunno, perhaps, but i do believe that i am to blame for my own actions at all times. Nobody once ever forced me to take drugs or drink, i did it. I knew the risks but i still did it. I was always to blame. Eventually i just stopped doing that as got bored of being that way so i pushed myself to be ok. Deeb clearly can stop if he truly wants but chooses not to, as is his right. That's pretty much all it comes down to. Its extraordinarily rare that a person has an illness which makes them obese, its pretty much always because they choose to take on more calories than they burn off. Each to their own and all that as for all i know he may be fine with being obese and so who are we to look down on that choice. Doesnt affect our lives in the slightest really, but for people to continually label poor choices as a disease simply enables the user to justify continuing imo.

I agree with the whole thing except but one addition...
Yea Shaun being obese doesnt affect our lives, but like the USA where 40,3% of people aged 20 and up are obesed it does start to have a massive effect on the nation
And its a rather negative one so it shouldnt be normalized
Encouraging people from losing weight and living healthy instead of saying those people have an illness seems very important

Thats why I think classifying all obesity cases as an illness is ridiculous, especially since obesity purely from medical reasons is estimated at <1%

I do believe propensity towards alcoholism and obesity are linked to genetics but I’m not sure if I’d call it a disease in the general sense of the word.

It seems like the disease designation stems from environment factors playing a role which is true and valid but maybe calls into question the effectiveness of an overly general term.

The obesity epidemic is costing us all millions in health care costs and lost productivity. Does calling it an epidemic make it a disease?

Not to beat a dead horse but it’s very obvious why obesity has become a problem and why it’s so prevalent in some areas rather than others. In areas of the world, like the southern US where high calorie, large portion meals are the norm, people are fat. Places which have seen an adoption of American food culture (McDonald’s etc) like South America, China, and Australia have also seen rapid increases in obesity rates. It’s not a medical disease, it’s **** food and lifestyle culture. Go to Europe and the food portions are 50% what you would get in America. Your stomach reacts to how much food you put into it and if you constantly overstuff it it will start to expect a larger volume of food. This goes for other products like sugars and saturated fats.

The studies of the effectiveness of GLP-1 drugs should have had a second component. All of the people in the study should have had someone who followed them around when they went out in public, and that follower walked behind them and played a tuba.

I mean, the whole topic of this thread puts the lie to the claim that obese people are not to blame; Deeb changed his lifestyle and lost the weight. He showed how it is done. Then he chose to become fat again because of his exceptionally poor lifestyle choices.

It's that easy. It's a physics equation. Eat less, eat clean, move more.

They should have had a study with three groups of fat people. GLP-1 vs Tuba following you constantly vs control group.

fat bastards

Stupidity is a massive drain on any system. I've been a part of that cohort.

If I inject poison into my blood constantly for a long period of time, after a while my bloodwork and physical tests will show that there are imbalances in my hormones, blood, probably brain circuitry as well etc. Doesnt mean I have a disease, just means Im facing the consequences of my stupid actions. Same with most fat people except the rare exceptions. Of course forcing your body to face massively imbalanced nutrition and lack of excersise for years will have a huge effect on all parts of your brain and body.

To say that the existence of physical markers in fat people is proof that they are fat because of a disease is either disingenuous or stupid.

I agree. But nobody said that, and what you refer to is the distinct phenomenon of poisoning rather than disease. The physical manifestations of the disease of morbid obesity are in the neural circuits that regulate caloric setpoint (calories in versus calories out), satiety, food cravings, and metabolic responses to eating. That therapeutic interventions modifying these particular neural circuit functions cause morbidly obese people to lose much, much more weight in combination with nutritional and exercise counseling than on nutritional and exercise counseling alone, and that almost completely prevent the development of type 2 diabetes in the morbidly obese established as prediabetic supports this.

The effect of anti-obesity hormone mimics on cravings and compulsive behaviors other than food related also supports the existence of a neural circuit disorder. The clinical evidence is still in its early stages compared to the study of obesity, but the semaglutide family also appear to have pronounced effects on lowering cravings in those suffering from substance abuse disorder and cigarette addiction, too.

"Just say no" to morbid obesity is about as effective as "just say no" proved to be to drug addicts, namely not very.

No its not just how poison works. Its how neural pathways work. You do something continuously, that neural pathway is strengthened over time. Youre using those neural circuits as evidence that there is a physical disease at play and that fat people are passive receivers of obesity.

The way those neural circuits in fat people works, is a direct result of stuffing yourself with food every time your body says "maybe we need some more food?". If they had exercised self control, their body would have gotten the message "no, we dont need to eat more right now" which in turn would have not reinforced the "slight feeling of hunger = need to stuff my gullet" pathway. Their neural circuitry is a direct result of laziness, not the other way around.

That's not how appetite is controlled. Semaglutide works by slowing the movement of food through the stomach, which in turn makes people feel more full having eaten less food than they normally would. There is a gut-brain communication system responsible for this.

As for caloric set point and satiety, think of them as being akin to thermostats. A comfortable temperature set point for many would be 72 degrees F. But if the thermostat is broken (i.e., diseased), it might mistakenly not shut off properly when the set temperature is reached, or may instead shut off at a much different temperature, one that isn't comfortable. For those not obese, their caloric set point that responds to calorie intake and calories burned works normally, but when it's broken (i.e., diseased) people will overeat or undereat, often to the point of causing numerous physical problems.

#Tuba

My point is that morbid obesity is a disease, has been recognized as a disease for many decades, and there's a biological basis for it that I have attempted to briefly explain.