AKs shove with against stations?

7*6 = 42$ in the pot
Limper donks 20$
When you're are short shipping is fine with nfd.
If you had 200$+ if villain is a station, then it's a mistake. Calling is better if you had more money.

Preflop probably raise to at least maybe 12-15 or even bigger if they're all call happy. You don't want a million callers. You want headsup situation.

Wow, that sounds like a great game. If 5 players call your shove and you've got the NFD plus 2 overs, you won't win often but the expected value has to be thru the roof.

I would raise more preflop, and you can get away with larger value raises bc live players do not blink at $10-12, sometimes $15-20, when they want to play a hand.

Wtf is the raise to 6 at a limp for 2?

this might be a troll thread.

in case it isnt, are you an exclusively online player? because a raise to $6 is lol. also playing with $100 behind is lol. also since you obviously lost, if you won the hand and quintupled your stack would you be making this thread?

Getting 5 callers for the shove is a great result. The flush almost always wins and the A or K might be good too. So hugely profitable.

1/2 players will treat the raise to 6 as a limp and call with all sorts of junk.

Yeah my raise sizing is from micro stakes. If I can get them call it, is it always worth making the raise sizes bigger?

Learned it from online. I figured I could reuse it in live to cut the variance slightly.

Sheesh forgive me for being broke and new lmao. The sizing is from playing online all the time. Playing with 100 behind is because I'm broke as shit and trying to build a roll from nothing.

Yes I would be asking. I recently tripled up on a gutter then went back, worked out reasonable ranges and so on, and realized it was a massive blunder that I got lucky on. I try to always go back and re-evaluate the hands that either I was unsure on something with or that seem too obvious, since I don't know enough for things to be very obvious yet.

Pre-flop error:
AK OOP is one hand I bet big (also JJ) because if everyone folds it’s not a disaster. It’s a great hand short stacked if you can get the money in pre-flop.

What you did is a disaster, not because you let everyone in for a family pot, but because one of the crowd clearly hit the flop. You missed, so why shove now - it’s too late when you allowed someone to make their hand.

No, this is not the way
Bet 20 or 25 pre-flop
I normally bet 10 pre-flop with my range OOP, but not AK or JJ.
You have to narrow the field

Everyone has a 68% chance of missing the flop, but out of six or seven players, someone will hit it.

It’s better if everyone folds than if everyone calls. If one player calls, now you can shove the flop because they likely miss.

Do you think that the player betting 1/2 pot into a crowd has nothing? - you have nothing.
Do you think that player will fold to your jam? - not now with a made hand.

Finally, if everyone folds pre-flop
I will start opening big with my entire range.
If 3 or 4 call 25 (it happens) then I don’t think I want to play a short stack in this game - if this is the nature of the game, I’m just jamming pre-flop.

If you had an idea that these players call big bets (flop calls are insane), you definitely should have gone all-in pre-flop.

Thank you this is super helpful. I love the idea of going big on the raise sizing with AK and JJ, that makes a ton of sense in this environment. To be clear about the players I was against, they kept betting with like one fold by the river, and on the river a player pulled in an ~800 dollar pot with two pair fives and twos. All-in preflop is a good idea; it would have gotten called by at least one person almost every time.

There is one thing I want to ask about that doesn't make sense to me. You say

> Do you think that the player betting 1/2 pot into a crowd has nothing? - you have nothing.
> Do you think that player will fold to your jam? - not now with a made hand.

But this isn't exactly right? With the info I have available, I know that I have a bit less than 1/3 of a better hand (not 36% because someone could draw a boat over me) and a bit over 2/3 of nothing. All I need is a bunch of callers because then I only need to beat their collective best hand a bit less than 20% of the time or something. Nut flush will very frequently beat their best hand and its equity remains very similar no matter how many players call. Should I be thinking of a draw as nothing instead?

Raise more pre. There's a lot to consider with raise sizes but broadly low stakes players call too much so you're going to play multi-way pots, often out of position. One way to exploit that is to tighten ranges and raise larger.

Flop is fine obviously and getting called 5 ways is a dream result when you are drawing to the nuts. Hard to find plausible ranges where you don't have a massive share of the pot equity. Even if some guy is a nit who only has sets, it's still easily a profitable shove.

Compared to online, live preflop sizes tend to be much larger. Also the players are typically considerably worse and hands are far more likely to go multiway. Typical open raise sizes in most places at low stakes are 3-5x when folded to (more in some places); against a single limper generally you want to go around 5x or a touch more. Your preflop result is a bit extreme but not unheard of at all.

Flop result is perfect although there are probably some draws in there blocking your flush outs. You may sometimes win with a pair. When you play this shallow the shove here is really the only play on a great flop and all the calls just make your situation better although obviously more often than not you lose.

3-5xBB when folded to in a 2/5 game or some 1/2 games during the day. Usually 5+xBB in a 1/2 game. Usually at least 6xBB at one limper.

My logic is that against many players, I lose many times with AA - that’s a fact
So I don’t want to get in situations with many players if I can help it.

All I need is a bunch of callers is crazy to me
It feels like playing table games - I’ll lose most of the time, but ‘I might’ win a bunch

Also, when a player bets a hand into a bunch of players it’s usually strong. Maybe 2pair+ nobody is bluffing - nobody trying to buy it
(I mean obviously never say never, but a high percentage of the time)

I personally, semi-bluff draws often, but not when a bunch come along

*note - not everyone agrees with me on this forum, so you can disagree

People are at various stages of the journey
I question everything
I read every book, train regularly and play when I can - but poker is always on my mind

I admire the ones that teach me and I’m always ready to learn. But you have to make your own decisions.

You take your own chances, and pay your own dues

Semi-grunch:

PRE - raise bigger in highly raked live low stakes games. At least $10, if not $12 over the limp, when we're going to be OOP post flop if anyone behind us calls. We'd much rather everyone behind us folds.

FLOP - I think you mean UTG1 donked. The $86 shove into the now $62 pot with two overs, the NFD and a couple BDSD's is fine.

I skimmed enough of the thread to see that you're used to playing online. Pre-flop opens in live games tend to be bigger. And when a younger player opens for a small size, I think many low stakes players instinctively decide to VPIP, hoping to smash the flop and punish the obvious online player at the table.

There are at least a few regular contributors who have posted more suspicious threads than this one. Perhaps we can give new members the benefit of the doubt.

That's good.

Best advice I can give you is focus on bankroll management. There's not a lot of poker to be played with 1 50bb buy-in. The hand itself is what ever because of how short we are, bigger pre and flop we can't rly play any differently.

As for live vs online, big differences and you'll lose a lot of money live if you approach it the same way as online. I have played a ton of volume for both so if I can ever give you any pointers, feel free to dm me.

Math actually disagrees with you about wanting to be heads up with AA. Certainly you win more often when heads up, but you will win more money with multiple callers in the long run.

I have run the numbers in the past. Suppose you shove 100bb of with AA. There is an optimal number of callers, and that number is greater than 1. It depends on the range of your callers a bit, but with a reasonable calling range, itÂ’s 5. DonÂ’t forget - more callers means more often that you get beat, but also more money when you win for the same risk.

The example I gave is of course theoretical. One of the reasons you do want to go heads up is that you are not often shoving PF for 100bb and getting called. Postflop decisions are certainly much easier heads up and you tend to realize your equity more in that case than you do with multiple callers. So, yes there is value to going heads up, but that isnÂ’t necessarily always optimal.

Given the choice would you rather risk $100 and get paid $400 if a fair coin flips heads twice in a row or get paid $120 if it flips heads once? Math says the first on is the better bet - EV is $25 vs $10. Similar logic applies in the poker case to heads up vs multiway

Yeah I like playing AA 3 or 4 way. Increase the chance someone hit a pair to pay me all the way
With 5 callers it starts to get kinda like every card is a scare card but you can usually get it 2-3 way on the flop and proceed from there... Or if you get a bad flop like monotone with no FD or a 3-straight, you de-escalate.

Thank you!

Raise bigger pre, at least 10. With Villain's SPR, it's good that you just ripped it in on the flop.

If he didn't donk, XR can be good both HU and multiway too on these low boards, at least again most players.