1/2, the dreaded multiway flop donk

I flat. On a board this dry, I wasn't going to c-bet bigger anyway. This is usually a draw or a weak made hand, and we want more from each. A raise may get him to fold hands we want multiple streets from. Meanwhile, he has some 2p in his range as well, and if we raise, we either value cut ourselves or open up to a 3-bet, which is even worse.

So call and see what V1 does. If he comes along, or raises, things get a bit more interesting, but given V descriptions, I'm pretty happy to GII against either of them here.

When the trash hand people are hitting their hands, it can be easy to value-own yourself, barreling into the unlikely. It sucks

Raise 40
I like doubling the bet with value, because it likely gets called. If the nut on the button folds, it would be a good thing.

I gather that these games play more ragged than in the casino, so if you think either or both would call, I would jam.

The main worry I have about this hand is that unlucky opening bet-size could karma you.

just call i see no point raising

I call. Like Garrick wrote, he may fold hands to a flop raise that he would otherwise call on multiple streets.

Here I was, thinking I was chickening out with TPTK.

Flop: ($41 before rake) A65r. V2 donks $20, Hero calls, V1 calls.

Turn: ($95 after rake) 8 completing the rainbow. V2 bets $100, Hero . . . ?

Fold turn to such big bet. Good for him if he's barreling hands like 87.

^ This. I expect this is 2-pair most of the time, and he's now worried about getting counterfeited. Occasionally it's a worse ace who thinks one or both of you has 87 and is trying to price out the draw, but not often enough to continue, imo.

If he'd half-potted again, FWIW, I prolly raise it up. But given an overbet into two players, this is a fold against all but the craziest maniacs.

Yeesh.

I'd think your V either has you crushed, or he's lost his mind and is massively over-playing worse AX.

One of the mods (Garick, maybe) once told me they call with nothing, they don't raise with nothing. Or something like that. I'd think the same principle applies here. Multi-way donks are generally going to be strong. Whatever BS he might donk is very likely to pump the brakes when he gets not one but two calls.

Also - they always put us on AK. When we can have AK, and it's an A-high board, and they're blasting off, alarm bells should be going off.

Plus - we could have AA. When they take this line, I think it's likely they have A6 or A5, making it less likely we have AA. Even 66 or 55 might pause long enough to consider they could be getting coolered by AA. But A6 and A5 just go full steam ahead.

And another thing - he's an old bastard, and a losing player. I'd have to think he'd mostly check-call with most of his worse AX. If he had a bluff, or was uncertain if his hand was good, he'd probably size down, if he didn't want to give up the betting lead.

But wait, there's more - what the hell does V1 have here, that over-calls flop behind us? Maybe he just has a draw, or worse AX, but maybe he has 65 and was happy to flat call the dry-as-toast flop, but now he's going to spring the trap if you call.

My spider-sense is telling me you're going to fold, and the reveal is that he has some BS that makes no sense. You should fold. I'd be amazed if he finds this line with a worse hand more than 10% of the time.

The only logic I can see here would be if V2 has a hand like AQ and has a reason to believe you or V1 would bluff him off his hand if he checked, so he's betting to stop his opponents from bluffing, which doesn't make sense, yet happens a ton playing fish at LOL-stakes.

The main (maybe only) point in raising is that V very often gives away the real strength of their hand. Esp. on A65r, people don't 3bet 87 so what happens is that they 3bet often with sets or two pair and just call otherwise. So if you raise to like 45 then you can snap fold to a raise, or you have the best hand on a lot turns when they call.

Would default to raise or fold, but raise for information can be useful.

Also "bleeds chips" isn't a great read, yeh everyone who calls wide ranges pre. tends to do that but ... what does V randomly donk? Vs. a lot of people I'd snap fold AK on the flop, because it's always two pair or better and we can't even bet/raise happily if the turn is an A or K.
Like you raised pre. and it's an A high flop, randoms aren't playing 3d chess and bluffing you off when you hit ... so they either 1) Have a monster and bet something that is better than Ax. 2) Are an idiot and donking because they hit top pair.

Does V overvalue or undervalue his hands postflop? I’d like a better read whether V takes this donk line with AQ-AJ, Axs, 87s. The only hands beating you are 65s, 66, and 55. Calling the turn gets hero pot committed. Raising gets called only by better. All the while V1 is yet to act. I fold.

I mean, if I knew his donking range I wouldn't need you people. 😃

He's not much of a donker. In fact, in early position when the action's on him he'll frequently say "I check, I've been raised" — meaning (or at least giving the impression to mean) that he prefers smaller pots when he's got a piece of it so as to not get blown off his equity.

lol at folding AK to one bet. Like, even if you and docvail are right and his donking range is strong (and I agree it is fairly so), if he's devoting any brain cells to hand-reading I have a wide-ass range here that a vulnerable made hand doesn't want to see get a free card, to say nothing of the goofball on the button.

AK is not just a drawing hand, it’s the best hand when nobody has a pair, and you do have TPTK in this situation.

But it gets real on the turn
When the stack of twenty red chips goes in the middle at this stakes, one pair is no good.

I think you played it fine
I suggested raising flop, to find out how much villain(s) like their hands. But fortunately, we have so many players that telegraph their strength like this. Almost every session, I see someone bet big pre-flop, fold everyone with AA and win peanuts - “I can’t let someone outdraw me” they say smiling as they win $4

I would raise flop, I think a bunch of good things can happen like getting value and getting raised by better hands (only?) so we can get out cheap.

Sure he hits sometimes, that’s every hand. If they couldn’t hit we would be so rich.

I dunno; think I got out cheap there.

My line here would depend heavily on V2. Does he donk with TP or does he donk with 2p+ like most low-stakes fish and shitregs? if he donks with TP, call, if he donks only with 2p+, easy fold.

I think hero played it well.

I’m late to the party but I agreed Hero played this well. I agree with every decision. We can’t forget that V1 is described as crazy enough to have all 32 combos of turned straights and has not acted yet when we are facing this overbet. Good fold.