2/5 flop nuts how to extract max value from fish?

if the guy is overvaluing hands why check the flop?

river doesn't make sense to me. you should either be betting small to get called by a weak hand (or raised by a strong hand), or CRing all in to win max vs a big hand. betting out huge is pretty bad b/c it wins the minimum vs a strong hand and gets folds from weak hands. dont fall into the fish river trap of "OMG i have big hand and the pot is too small, i better bet big now to make more money!"

Nitty and Omaha are right. This V likes to get aggro with x-raises, give them something to raise. 6:1 SPR, so H doesn't need to go huge on flop to play for stacks.

Aargh, just saw we're OOP. Well, then donk small, and keep betting.

Not directed at just you Dango but people need to stop overcomplicating these spots vs these type of players. They call too much and don't bet enough, how do you extract value? You do the betting.

As played I hate the river. 200 into 85. If he has a 6 or better he'll raise our normal bet sizes and vs that size bet we're just forcing everything that might call a small bet to fold including some 6x.

Dango, I'm going to point this out to you once again, for what I think is at least the third time. You develop these quick reads on opponents, but they're not always complete, and you either assume more than you should without having more complete info, or you fail to make the appropriate adjustments.

For example, here you say V is a fish, either too aggro, or over-values his hands. But does he bluff when the PFR checks to him on the flop? That's kind of important info to have before we decide to check to him after flopping a monster, on a low, disconnected and fairly dry board.

If our read is right, what should we do when we raise pre and flop top set, OOP as the PFR in a SRP? Should we check, c-bet small (around 1/2 pot), or c-bet big (2/3 pot to full pot or more)? What happens if we do each of those things?

If we check - he may bet small, bet big, or check back.

Do we know if he'll bluff when we check? Is this the sort of spot where he'd start a bluff? Why? We could be range-checking here, trapping with our over-pairs, etc. When he stabs at the pot after an opponent checks, what size does he typically use? Is it big? Bigger than what we'd c-bet here? Does he tend to barrel when he gets called after stabbing? Do we think we have a nitty image? Is he more likely or less likely to try a bluff if a nit raises pre and checks to him on the flop?

If we bet small - he may fold, he may call, or he may raise, which would be awesome.

Do we know how sticky he is when the OOP PFR bets into him? Is he likely to find a lot of bluffs on this board? Is he going to turn A2 into a bluff, or just 87s? Does he get here with 53s, T8s, and a bunch of other hands that have some sort of draw but no showdown value?

If we bet big - he's more likely to fold, less likely to call, and much less likely to raise.

Do we know if he'll fast-play thick value, even facing a large bet on a rainbow board? Or is he more likely to slow-play and trap when IP? Is he the type to fold often enough, or the type to find a ton of bluffs when facing a big c-bet? Is he sticky, even when facing big c-bets?

Against the population, my default would be to check from OOP here, to see if he stabs at it. I could also see c-betting smaller, like a 1/3 pot downbet, to get him to call with more of his range, and possibly raise.

But our read on this V is that he's aggro, So I might throw a change-up, by c-betting flop, and then checking the turn. If we have an additional read that he's sticky facing flop c-bets, even big c-bets, I'd want to go larger, not smaller.

If we know he's capable of stabbing when opponents check to him, and barreling rivers with thin value, I don't mind letting him take the betting lead on the turn by checking, and checking again on the river.

What was your plan for the turn, before you saw it? Delayed c-bet? Assume he checks back flop, but floats wide on the turn. What's he doing with most of his range when we barrel river? Especially if we size up on a brick, which you seem to love doing? He's going to fold a lot of hands on the river in this line.

What if we checked again on the turn? Our read is that he's aggro. Is it likely he's going to bet when we check twice? Maybe. What size would he take? Bigger than 1/2 pot?

If we bet big on the flop, and he calls, THEN we can check to him on the turn, to feign weakness, and give him rope to bluff into a pot that will be bigger than it is after we check the flop.

Say you bet $30 on the flop, and he called. The pot would be $105 on the turn. Say you checked. What's he doing on this card? Probably betting, at least $50, maybe $75, maybe pot, maybe an over-bet.

The pot should be at least $200 getting to the river. If you started $300 eff, he should have a PSB left behind if you bet $20 pre, $30 on flop, and check-called $50 on turn. Even if he bluffs for a small size on the river, what size is that? $100? We can just stick the rest in and not worry about him folding, when we're laying him 4:1 on a call, and got 2/3 of his starting stack.

If we just take it down on the flop after c-betting 2/3 pot, c'est la vie. He probably wasn't going to call a smaller bet, and probably wouldn't have stabbed at it if we checked to him.

Alternatively, since we are starting fairly shallow, and it's a low, disconnected board, just go bet-bet-bet, like $30 flop, $60 turn, and all-in ($190 into $225) on river. Easy game.

It’s beyond me to flop a monster and check. There’s a lot more flop checking in this forum than I ever felt possible. The population calls flop bets, you want a call, so bet. This is not a matter of letting them catch up - it’s all about they have no idea how strong you are.

Your aggro fish checked behind - you just can’t expect villain to bet your hand for you.

It’s so out of whack
Guess you bet small on the turn because you’re afraid he will fold.
But then you bet huge on the river and think he will call.

You’re set to win 40 with a monster
Maybe he’s going to call, you seem to think he will, so what do I know.

I just think a bet, bet, bet line is how to extract maximum value in this situation.

Bet 25 on the flop.

AP, bet 30 on the turn.

River: I’d rather build a pot over three streets but here we are. If you have a read V thinks you’re FOS, then bet 200, sure. Do you know why V is here? Is he looking to gamble?

I mean it can go over way here. V is 60BB deep, this isnt a tough spot to play for stacks. If we check he's betting a lot, which means he's also calling a lot so it's whatever. I dont want him to Fold T4o so I'm ok with the check. You seem to think the turn contradicts the river but all we're really trying to do is establish a calling range for the river. Since V is described as a station and willing to blast holding TPNK on a 4card straight runnout it's entirely feasible he will call a river overbet with whatever he had on the turn. We know his range is no longer unpaired random cards, and it looks like he doesnt really monkeystab boards when checked to, so lets just inflict max pain on the river.

Vs a complete drooler how much would you bet to bluff him off a single pair?