Raise and get 4 callers, missed the flop which is bad for my range, but everyone keeps checking
Not sure exact stack sizes, which are not that important. 1/3 NL. 4th position and LJ limp, hero raises in CO to 20 with AsQc, BTN, SB, BB, and LJ call.
Flop (93) Ts9h3c, checks though. Turn Ks for Ts9h3cKs, Checks to hero, who bets 40, BTN and LJ call. River (213) 3s for Ts9h3cKs3s, LJ checks, hero ???
13 Replies
Stack sizes might inform my preflop sizing more (especially if some shorter stacks are involved), but otherwise I'm fine with it.
This multiway and on this board/runout, I'm giving up on both flop and turn. Turn completes some straights and two pears that could be checking to our obvious AK. I'd be more cooler with attempting to rep the K multiway when it is much less likely to have helped someone.
Most definitely giving up on the river now that almost every single hand other than 9x and some wonky straights (that we're blocking) got there and we're still multiway with a person still behind us.
GcluelessgivinguprealeasynoobG
Is H deciding to bluff spades should they arise on the river, or rep the King on this turn? It looks like you're trying to build a pot on the turn/cheaply stab, and not trying to bet a King. Though you did knock it down from 5-ways to 3-ways, tbf.
Accordingly, bet the flush-bringing, yet pairing river card since you have the As. Depending on remaining stacks, ofc. V1 and V2 called with something on the turn, yet didn't bet flop. Draws seem more likely than Tx/98 kind of hands, nevermind T9, and both QJ and the flush came in. Plus, H only has Ace high, and is only beating something like 87. I don't think H has much SDV here that they can x-b vs 2. Somebody has a T/9/or actually a K.
AP, I think a bluff shove, or similar large bet, does better EV-wise, even though getting Vs to fold a made hand they were drawing to, is usually a fool's errand. It'd certainly look like H was betting the NF for value.
Cbet the flop - you are the only one considering the board missed your range.
As played, I would have checked down with the rest of them. It feels like you’re trying to force the action, instead of playing the situation.
River
You can’t represent the flush and someone else might have it. I don’t know how big you’d have to bet to get a pair to fold. Think I would just check down & accept my fate.
No need to lose anymore with the hand Doyle folded pre-flop.
Doyle didn't usually fold AQo preflop. He said unsuited high cards were trouble hands. He played pretty loose in NLHA cash games 50 years ago. He implied small pps and suited connectors were generally better hands than like unsuited high cards.
I thought the pot was so big and no one wanted it. Thought I could represent AK when the K hit, had 3 out to the nuts and others to improve.
Bet 75 on the river. 1/3 pot bluff is break even if it gets through 1/4 of the time. Thought a bigger bet would polarize me to a flush. Could still represent AK. Could have led the turn with a flush draw. Block the nuts. It didn't make that much sense, but they miss a lot on the low card and might be scared of the flush.
stack sizes are very important here actually. if everyone has more than 1.5 pot then you should overbet bluff to get Kx to fold. even a weak flush might fold. you have the As, use it.
if you're arent going to bluff this river, turn bet is a pretty big mistake. the point of being aggro with small bets on prior streets is to get people to call with weak hands that you can bluff out later. if you arent going to do that, dont be aggro with small bets on prior streets.
try to play one of two styles
1) aggro, with small ball followed by big boy bets
2) defensive, with more passive lines that wait for things to develop while finding big bluff opportunities on late streets
taking only a component of these strategies without incorporating the other parts doesnt really work imo.
Result was everyone folded river. On the turn, I had outs if called, but I expected to be called. Idea was to represent AK. Plan was to bluff river on some actions and river cards.
When a bunch call preflop and then keep checking, I sometimes look to make a play, whether or not I am the preflop aggressor. Too much dead money out there.
I guess everyone thinks it was bad. There was a problem that it was a fairly wet board on the turn.
Grunch:
PRE - raise bigger. At least $25, if not $30.
FLOP - definitely check.
TURN - what's your reasoning for betting? Does the size you chose accomplish whatever your goal was?
If we're trying to take it down, we need to go bigger than under 1/2 pot. I'd think we need to go at least 2/3, if not full pot. If we want calls, this less than 1/2 pot bet is a good size.
RIVER - you'll need to bet big if you want them both to fold. Otherwise, just give up and check back.
With the nut flush blocker, it seems reasonable to empty the clip, when you take this line. We could credibly have a number of AXss combos that would play this way - checking back the flop and then starting a semi-bluff on the Ks turn.
Yeah, larger on river would be better to represent the flush with the nut flush blocker. I figured 1/3 pot could also represent thin value with AK. Figured I could have AK/KQ and a flush I was semibluffing with on the turn, so my bet sort of made sense. Wasn't trying to get anyone to fold a flush or top pair. Just figured they may have called with a pair and straight draw or whatever and wouldn't be able to call a fairly large bet in absolute terms.
I think you want to have a stronger draw on the turn, like a flush draw or open ender at least, to semibluff into this many people on such a wet board. Bluffing the turn into 4 players is pretty bad with our hand, especially on this board where it's likely someone has some sort of pair or draw that will call. It's unlikely that we get the turn bluff through, and we don't have enough backup equity with our hand. We only have 3 clean outs plus some dirty outs to an ace or flush-completing straight.
The only way I could get behind this bet would be if you had live reads and it was obvious no one had anything and they were all just getting ready to fold. Sometimes you see "give up checks" in low stakes games where people disengage from the hand and you can tell they're done with it.
Anyway as played I guess you've got to follow through and keep telling your story on this river. I would probably prefer you would have bet a bit bigger to represent the flush with the ace flush blocker. You probably don't want to go too big though because someone could just have a flush, king or 3 and these aren't likely to fold. Betting 2/3 pot might be big enough to fold out a 9 or T, but really I don't like this multi-street bluff spot at all.
A couple old-school heuristics... 1. Don't bluff into 3 or more players (exception would be with very strong draws where you don't mind building a pot for when you hit). 2. Don't bluff into boards with two or more cards that are a ten or higher (also not always true, but these are boards that tend to connect with calling ranges).
