Crown Casino (Melbourne, Australia)
I recently spent a week playing tournaments at Crown Melbourne and played some cash games, when I was trying to find inf
Played for a bit over three hours the other night when I was approached and told I had to take 15 mins break. The break button was two spots to my right. Me: "The break button reaches me in 30 mins - what happens then?" Crown Clown: "Then you take a 20 minute break." Have the lunatics taken over the asylum or what?
Crown would do better --- in respect of responsible gaming, customer satisfaction and profit --- if it fixed the broken system currently in place. There's no reason why it could not say to the State government that it is making efforts to communicate to its clientele the value of taking appropriate breaks, playing within your limits, realising when your chasing-losses, etc. The rigid system in place doesn't achieve its objectives (taking a break when appropriate does reduce the chances of gambling harm, which individual players are best at identifying themselves, with a little friendly assistance every so often, whereas taking one at an arbitrary moment just makes poker players frustrated and less likely to believe in the value of responsible gaming measures in general).
The reality is that there is no State or Federal Australian law stating that these mandatory breaks are required. While there are State laws that regulate who can run a casino via a gaming licence, the prospect that the Victorian State government would cancel Crown's licence because every poker player in the room is not taking a 15 minute break every 3 hours is highly improbable, especially since this "recommendation" regarding these breaks was specifically designed for those playing electronic gaming machines, which generally speaking are the slots/pokies, where there is a legitimate danger of customers sitting there for hours on end, by themselves, losing between 8 to 15 cents for every dollar they slot into a machine.
Crown should wake-up and make a clear distinction between POKER players, specifically their lower risk of suffering from gambling harm due to the strategic and social nature of the game, and POKIE players who are in a high-risk category due to the non-strategic and non-social nature of play on slot machines, not to mention the way in which these machines are designed to profit from addiction. It could easily communicate this distinction to the State government for the sake of all involved and then commit to to an information-based, educational approach to problem gambling rather than the implementation of arbitrary measures that infantilise its customers, lessen the enjoyment of the game and reduce profit (e.g. loss of rake/increased wages to responsible gaming staff).
Not sure if true, but I was recently told that Crown initially suggested what is now in place, that one player takes a break each 20 mins but the government (VGCCC?) insisted that entire tables go on break.
Will be interesting if any internationals come for the AM and play high stakes cash. “Sorry Patrik, you need to take a break, come back in 20 minutes. Oh, and you can’t play any table games during your break!”
Not sure if true, but I was recently told that Crown initially suggested what is now in place, that one player takes a break each 20 mins but the government (VGCCC?) insisted that entire tables go on break.
The VGCCC says it has embedded "a harm minimisation focus into every element of [its] regulatory activity, including how we evaluate all licencing approvals and applications," as outlined in this statement from 2023:
While the VGCCC has statutory authority granted to it by the Casino Control Act and Gambling Regulation Act, I don't believe this statutory authority provides it with the legal authority to enforce mandatory breaks. It can make recommendations and threaten to withdraw a licence and/or issue a breach notice if these recommendations aren't followed but a removal of a licence/issue of a breach would likely be contested on such grounds. If a mandatory break was actually legislated by the state government then the situation would be clearer; however, if mandatory breaks were legislated then players, not just licence holders, could also contest this law, which would open-up a can of worms.
Will be interesting if any internationals come for the AM and play high stakes cash. “Sorry Patrik, you need to take a break, come back in 20 minutes. Oh, and you can’t play any table games during your break!”
Having not played at Crown for two years until these last few weeks, it has been notable how on multiple occasions each day there is a dispute over the 20 mins break, typically when a player goes to sit down with a rack of chips and is then told they need to take a break for 20 mins, even though haven't played a single hand: a rule that is clearly absurd. That this absurdity is not officially recognised by Crown and/or the VGCCC is another absurdity. Hence the "lunatics have taken over the asylum" comment above. It's a mess and with most forms of mess, in the end nobody wins, except the "cleaning company", which, to extend the metaphor, is the layer of "responsible gaming" staff and infrastructure that is currently sucking money out of the local poker economy and also damaging the integrity of all those researchers who've spent their lives attempting to better understand and tackle genuine issues around gambling addiction and social harm.
It’s gonna be a mess for Aussie Millions, imagine playing a 25k with 10BB left on the bubble and you gotta take a 20 minute break LOL
I dug around and discovered that the 3 hour mandatory breaks are effectively legislated via a Ministerial Direction issued in June 2023: https://www.gazette.vic.gov.au/gazette/G...
Poker tournaments are exempt from 3 hour, 12 hour (daily) and 36 hour (weekly) requirements, as are visiting VIPs who are part of the International Players Premium Program, albeit for a 7 day period only.
So Crown and VGCCC are effectively unable to do anything, aside from lobby the State Government. The fact that an exemption exists for poker tournaments and international VIPs indicates there is wriggle room for further exemptions (the logic behind the exemption for poker tournaments is practical while that for VIPs is likely business and tax-revenue related.)
In this respect, the incentives of cash game players and Crown are effectively aligned, which is a rare win-win, positive sum situation, in theory at least. I mean, the Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation could simply amend the June 2023 Direction and add cash poker games to the exemption section. She would need, however, the political reassurance that such an amendment wouldn't make the government appear soft on gambling regulation at a time when the vast majority believe the government should go harder, especially in relation to advertising for sports betting and the social harm caused by pokie machines.
Rumour that the rake structure is changing at 2/5 and 5/5 games, to be applied after Aussie Millions concludes (i.e. late April/early May):
10% up to $30, red chip rake, with minimum rake of $5
You cannot make a net loss on a winning or tied hand.
This means that a $149 pot "only" gets raked $10
But if you raise on the button and win the blinds, you are raked $5 and threrefore only win $2 in 2/5 and $5 in 5/5.
Compared to the current situation (10% up to $25), do you think this is better or worse?
Poker tournaments are exempt from 3 hour, 12 hour (daily) and 36 hour (weekly) requirements.
The fact that an exemption exists for poker tournament ….
Tournaments aren’t really exempt from the 3-hour rule as they have scheduled breaks anyway.
The Ministerial Direction explicitly exempts poker tournaments:
"A casino operator may provide the following exemptions from the break in play and play period requirements set out in section 5.1 for:
(a) international players as part of the International Premium Players Program spending seven days or less at the casino from the 3-hour, 24-hour and 36-hour play period and
related break in play requirements; and
(b) poker tournaments from the 24-hour and 36-hour play period and related break in play requirements."
Minister could add (c) cash poker tournaments to this list! No need to legislate: just a matter of putting ink to paper and publishing it in the Government Gazette. I understand your point that tournaments have 15 min breaks, every 2-3 hours, built into their structure. My point is that exemptions currently exist: this means further exemptions are possible without too much red-tape.
Rumour that the rake structure is changing at 2/5 and 5/5 games, to be applied after Aussie Millions concludes (i.e. late April/early May):10% up to $30, red chip rake, with minimum rake of $5You cannot make a net loss on a winning or tied hand.This means that a $149 pot "only" gets raked $10But if you raise on the button and win the blinds, you are raked $5 and threrefore only
$30? Jesus Christ
I will say that the rounding down rule is quite helpful. At Star we try to change 2/5-10 tables to 5/10 whenever the entire table agrees because max rake stays the same but they don’t rake anything other than $5s so $45 pot gets nothing, 140 pot rakes 10 etc
Rumour that the rake structure is changing at 2/5 and 5/5 games, to be applied after Aussie Millions concludes (i.e. late April/early May):10% up to $30, red chip rake, with minimum rake of $5You cannot make a net loss on a winning or tied hand.This means that a $149 pot "only" gets raked $10But if you raise on the button and win the blinds, you are raked $5 and threrefore only
The best way to work out if players would be better-off is to establish how many pots on average would reach the $30 cap as well as how many pots on average had a PFR stealing the blinds (where with a red-chip minimum we pay $5 in rake rather than a single $1 white-chip). For instance:
- If 30% of pots reach the $30 cap, players would be paying an extra $1.50 on average (0.30 x 5) per pot;
- If 5% of pots involved the PFR stealing blinds, players would be paying an extra $0.20 on average (0.05 x 4) per pot;
- Then in 65% of pots players would save $2.50 on average due to red-chip rounding effect (e.g in a pot of $110 we save $1; $120 we save $2; $130 we save $3; $140, we save $4; $10 savings/4 = $2.50) with the overall saving in these pots thus being $1.625 (0.65 x 2.5)
In the above scenario players are worse-off by 7 cents (1.625 - 1.50 - 0.20). If you estimated that only 25% of pots reach the $30 cap then players would actually be better-off by 30 cents (1.75 - 1.25 - 0.20).
So, as you can see, estimating how many pots reach the cap on average is crucial. For example if only 15% of pots reach the $30 cap, while still assuming 5% of pots had PFR stealing blinds, players would be better-off by $1.05.
Not even Crown would know how many pots reach the cap (they would only know how much rake they're taking overall on each table and therefore only able to estimate the impact of changes to rake structure, an estimate that would also involve considering number of hands dealt per hour as well as factors like how many players are entering pots, etc).
Poker room will not be open after 4pm on Saturday. They are unlikely to open in the few hours before then but it isn't confirmed.
They are also closed on Tuesday (Chinese New Year) even though in Australia it isn't a statutory public holiday. Perhaps resources needed to be diverted to baccarat or slots.
Rumour that the rake structure is changing at 2/5 and 5/5 games, to be applied after Aussie Millions concludes (i.e. late April/early May):10% up to $30, red chip rake, with minimum rake of $5You cannot make a net loss on a winning or tied hand.This means that a $149 pot "only" gets raked $10But if you raise on the button and win the blinds, you are raked $5 and threrefore only
If its red chip rake, isn't there no rake on pots between $0-$49?
I didn't think that they could rake $5 on a $7 pot?
I know they do at 1/3, but that is a very unusual rake structure.
Crown posted this today
Tuesday 17 Feb 2026 | Room closure
Due to operational requirements, the poker room will be closed today. It will re-open midday tomorrow. Thank you for understanding.
Had confirmation that the rake structure will change as of early April.
2/5 will move to 200-1000 buyin with rake of 10% up to $30, red chip only, with no minimum. There will be no rake on a pot of $49 or less.
Yet another round of redundancies coming April 19, just before the Aussie Millipns, some staff will stay on but go once the series ends. Does Crown want to replace everyone with18yo staff?
All while they re spending $200m on redevelopments https://www.afr.com/property/commercial/...
Had confirmation that the rake structure will change as of early April.
2/5 will move to 200-1000 buyin with rake of 10% up to $30, red chip only, with no minimum. There will be no rake on a pot of $49 or less.
Starts Thursday April 2. All games red chip rake, so more hands per hour. Rake 10% to $25 EXCEPT for 2/5 NLH ($30, ridiculous)
1/3 NLH, $100 - $300
*2/5 NLH, $300 - $1000
*5-5 NLH, $500 - $1500
5/10 NLH, $1000 - $4000
5/5 PLO, $500 - $1500
*no clock once rake capped
Downstairs they used to have 1/3 PLO, $100 - $300. Ridiculous that PLO $1500 is the smallest game these days.
Does anyone know if they’ll be open to doing other game types during Aussie millions?
I’d love to play a Big O or PLO8 game if it gets up
Does anyone know if they’ll be open to doing other game types during Aussie millions?
I’d love to play a Big O or PLO8 game if it gets up
Back in the day the PLO at Aussie Millions was huuuge
I remember seeing a 200-400 game with 70k minimum and a few 25-50-100-200 games nearby
