ClubWPTGold - RNG discussion

If the losses are non-poker related you could still fall back on being the "winningest" sng player

But I take an interest in the RNG of a poker site because im interested in online poker so maybe you could answer my previous question

Because if they dont that would be a huge red flag to me

I've played with you a few time and am legitimately surprised you can read.

Fair point, I haven't read all 70+ pages of the WPT thread where this was originally posted and I was unaware of winning players also being concerned. I am willing to be persuaded, however feelings are not proof. With such a big claim that the RNG is off or rigged there needs to be data, evidence, and substance to back this claim up. Yes it is possible there is something off about the RNG but highly improbable. If anything comes up other than a feeling, I am all ears. Until then, I'm done with the RNG discussion thread because there is nothing further to discuss.

Just witnessed a new record god mode run. A player named SaCuL bought in for $10 at a .10 .20 .40 PLO table. He started at 5:36am and played continuously at the same table until 2:55pm (9 hours 19 minutes). During this time he played a total of 487 hands. He reached a peak of $1,186 on this single $10 buy-in (186.6x) He finally left the table with close to $540. This player had a vpip of 82 and was playing very bad and very wild. Discounting shorthanded play he won 129 out of the 442 hands I counted. Close to 31% when the 8 handed table was at or nearly full.

It is hard to quantify just how improbable a run like this is. But just some more things to consider. The max buy-in at this table is $40. Most buy-in for less. He played the very first hand at the table HU. So there were no established big stacks that he could profit off of. This is low stakes PLO. There is no running over the table. A very high percentage of these hands went to showdown. I wish I had that percentage. So winning 31% of total hands at an 8 handed table over this sample is insane. And he did it on a single 25bb buy-in.

I described an eerily similar run in my previous post that happened just a couple days prior. This player actually won I think 38% of total hands over a similar sample. I actually have cellphone pictures saved of most of the hands for that one. If this type of thing was happening once in a great while you maybe could rationalize it as just a freak occurrence. But these types of runs are happening all the time on ClubWPT Gold. At least at the PLO .20 .40 - .50 1 stake range that I have been playing at. And they are only happening to the high vpip players. I have yet to see any decent player having some insane god mode run anything like this. I understand playing like a maniac gives someone a better chance to have a crazy run like this compared to a nit like myself. But it is still happening at a rate that is beyond any standard deviation that is realistic.

At this point I can say with near certainty there is something nefarious going on with ClubWPT Gold. At least in the games I have played in and observed. When you have extremely low probability events (maybe close to impossible in some cases) happening over and over again for only a certain subset of player types then something is wrong. While I have started to compile some data and evidence I wish I had more. But please understand it is very difficult on a site that does not give hand histories.

I am not a rigtard, I am not liar, I am not delusional, I am not a sore loser (actually slightly up in these games) and I have no incentive to want something to be wrong here. I am just reporting what I am seeing on daily basis. And I don't even claim to know exactly what is going on. It could be the site handicapping certain player types they know rate to lose at an extremely high rate. It could be bots or players planted by the site itself to generate games and action. I really don't know. But I know something is wrong.

They cranked up the aim assist tonight for sure. Seems like it's been since the last update.

Just wanted to chime in also. I have played on Gold and other sites and logged millions of hands and hundreds of thousands live also. I played with the above player mentioned the other night that ran up to $1500 at 40 PLO. This is a daily occurrence. And it isn't within a standard deviation. There are a lot of fishy things going on, on this site. And before anyone says I'm a fish, I'm still crushing the site. But I definitely understand every other day or at least 1 of my tables per sesh there will be a 80 vpip whale who runs up a monster stack that I can't win a single hand against. Just standard on Gold.

Thanks for confirming I still have some sanity left. It really is absurd. I think I finally got myself to stop playing in these games. I kept wanting to believe these were legit poker games but they just aren't. The denial part for me was thinking/hoping it wasn't rigged. Even if I can still come out ahead I value my sanity more. A couple other names that are very suspicious. OPPmoney. Teasr79 (going to post on his run later), oopsimdiddyagain and several more. But really most any 80 +VPIP player runs like god. Even if they inevitably lose.

Another suspicious part about some of the extreme god mode runs is how long these players play continuously at the same table. We have to assume someone who is an 80 to 90+ vpip player is a recreational player. Even for a professional grinder, playing over 9 hours at the same table continuously without a second break seems a bit absurd. And the decision times for these players tend to be lighting quick throughout the session. This makes me lean a bit towards the possibility these aren't just regular people who are getting gifted god mode runs by the site. But some kind of inside job plants. But I still don't know for sure about what is at work.

Just because you're not interested in what I have to say doesn't mean nobody is interested. You've taken my points out of context, resort to insults and petty jabs when you're ideas are proven to be weak and baseless. The worse part is you formulate your claims around feelings and a hunch, not logic, reasoning and proof. Your methodology of supporting your ideas really shows how ignorant and weak your arguments really are.

+1 on oppmoney! I can never beat this dude in a hand and he plays like an aggro maniac and always gets there.

The insults are not petty. They're extremely well crafted.

As far as "worse part", well, that's up for debate.

Does this look like him? Unfortunately I don't think I have any other records of this run up he had to almost $1200 at .20 .40. I thought I had recorded the details. But I remember it was just like the other two runs I described. I think he bought in for $20 and ran to it up to this stack in the picture. He played continuously at this same table for some insane long time just like the other two players. I actually played a lot of hands with him at this table and he was just unbeatable. Then here are two other pictures that show him buying in for $10 and running it up to $200 in 47 hands. Is the $1500 run up you mentioned in the other post a different occurrence to the one I was describing that you witnessed on your own?

That was the same run, both guys you posted. I wasn't at the tables you posted at those times but I was at some point. I played a short sesh 2.5 hours last night late and tried to table select and avoid the 80-95pfr/40+ pfr guys and just "bumhunt" (as if, almost everyone sucks anyways) the 40-70/10-20 guys. And guess what? It felt like a normal sesh and I won 7.5 buyins. Shocking!

I think after some research and hearing other's testimonials it's more likely there are super users and or cheating accounts made by the site than there are just whales running above EV. It would explain the 9+ hour continuous sesh from recs, I mean seriously dude I've played poker for 15 years and NO REC plays 10 hours without a break, this is just BS. We should keep posting more potentially suspicious accounts. But yeah, try avoiding the aggro whale tables and target the lower PFRs and see if that helps.

The superuser on GG also had very fishy stats and from what I read its quite likely wpt golds security is more vulnerable than GG's

The GG superuser Moneytaker wasnt running a lot above EV or anything but could see his % in a pot so he called down super weird spots with the best hand, he didnt shove crazy hands to see favorable runouts time and time again.

I pretty much have only targeted the mega high vpip whales because that is what common sense would dictate you should do in order to make the most money. And I played pretty obsessively over the past 3 months chasing the illusion of free money. But like you said the opposite of common sense is the prevailing theme here. The higher your opponents vpip the harder it is to win against them. It is hard to do what you are suggesting and play against normal players instead where things may be more more fair. Once you know the site is compromised it effects you mentally. And I don't want to continue giving business to a corrupt company even if I can still profit myself.

It is surprising this isn't getting more attention. While there is more to come, I think I have given some pretty solid evidence that something is wrong here. And there has to be many people who have the same experiences and observations that we have. I don't think many read these threads so I may have to look into contacting some people of relevance in the poker world to share some of this. I think this is the most active online poker site in the USA, to have actual evidence it is corrupted is a pretty big deal in the poker world.

I haven't played enough on Coin either yet to make a conclusion that it is better or worse than Gold but I will say so far I have felt like the best player at most tables and am barely winning on the site. The rake, despite promos and rakeback is high and the VPIPs are low. I'm seeing so much bad play from even regs on bomb pots too (Jesus everyone sucks at these!) and am getting it in so good and running ice cold to start on here. The traffic is low too, I like to play late nights and have trouble getting 6 tables unless I mix stakes or games.

Regarding what you said, I totally understand. But last night was the most "normal" session I have had on Gold. I still lost standard bad beats but didn't just lose every single hand to some 90/45 player like I shouldn't. There is 100% something crooked with Gold. Will anyone do anything about it? Highly unlikely, sadly. Doug Polk and these other names just shill it and make tons off it. They're not going to just come and throw it under a bus, even if there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence to suggest something nefarious is going on.

Come on man. If something were corrupt with Gold, you'd be able to tell because they'd do something like make sure their sponsored players final tabled their largest events. Until that happens, clearly there's nothing to discuss.

Waaaaiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt...........

Really though, another player fit the profile a few months back named "Shady8dy". He always sat with thousands of BBs, and played extremely erratically. Somehow he always seemed to get there. I saw him pretty regularly for a few weeks - always with massive stacks. I moved up as I was just learning PLO at the time, so maybe he still plays - but I haven't seen him for a while.

i've been able to move up in stakes on Gold - originally playing 25/50/1, then 50/1/2, and now 1/2/4. i'm up a good amount in 6 months. since they don't have hand histories and we don't have really accurate stats, it's very tough to determine if things are legit. but i can say these things are true:

- i am a steady winning player, typically 4-tabling
- the VPIP and PFR #s almost always allow to spot the super-aggros and super-conservatives
- when you go on a win streak, your good hands hold up at the expected rates. if i win 3 or 4 buy-ins in a session, there will still be some bad beats, but the number of holds outnumbers them.
- when you go on a losing streak, you are going to lose everything. top top gets burned constantly, every called 3 bet misses the flop, every draw bricks, and every flopped set will find an incredible way to lose. this can go on for tens of thousands of hands, which seems absurd when you're in the middle of it
- when you go on a losing streak, most of the losses "seem" to come at the hands of players with 5,000 or fewer hands played. most of the losses "seem" to happen to players that have well over 40% VPIP, but sometimes around 50-60-80%.

it crushes your soul when you raise 78s in LP, call a 3bet from the blind, and get an AQT none of your suit flop like clockwork. it happens over and over and over. then you massively 4bet aces or kings, and someone playing 79s for 30bbs pre hits a 257 board, immediately gets it all in, and turns a 9. "of course he gets that" is the only thing that can be said

if "seems" like the losing players should go broke much faster than they actually do. but, without statistical proof, it's nearly impossible to determine if anything shady ever happens. it also wouldn't surprise me if the business was doing shady things, since they sneak in every single way to nickel and dime players (timebank extensions, hand reveal) even via accidental clicks.

I meant to post earlier today but since my last post in the last week most sessions have felt normal until last night. Late night there were hardly any PLO tables running when I signed on. Then magically, which never happens late night there were new tables popping up with new players. Of course, the new players were in God mode with their 80% vpips as is the Gold norm. I also recognized OPPoker sign on and immediately left his table. Weirdly enough, he ended up leaving when I looked again. The other regs weren't winning either. I cut the session short after minimal damage. It's important on here to recognize a session you have no chance of winning in. Holdem, PLO, whatever. You will see the patterns and cheating that show it's going to be a huge losing session right away.

You're a fool if you think something nefarious isn't happening on the site. Just too many indicators. I believe last night the site was manufacturing new accounts to create more tables and rake and putting them in God mode. Don't fall for that. Just quit your session if you see that.

Insane amount of skill issue in this thread. Maybe if you guys with literal 1000s of posts on 2p2 over a decade+ committed to improvement and accountability things would have ended up different.

Chiming in late. I had a similar feeling. I stopped playing on club wptg after 50k hands or so (with a decent profit). Something felt off. Have played 10M+ hands of micro-low hs over the years

You must be one of those 90 vpip PLO crushers on the site. How much do you charge for coaching?

there are people saying the same thing who have thousands of posts, hundreds of posts, and tens of posts. it is amusing to hear the immediate dismissal based largely on the "why would anything be suspect???"

have you met ANY company, EVER? lol

New player tonight (still playing) running up $800 at 40 PLO. 86/33 stats, 800 hands. I just can't take this anymore. It's just way too common. This is just every day