1 3 nlhe line check and river decision
Ok I’m at a $1/3 game with a 500 max buyin- most folks don’t buy in for max though typically.
So hand- I have $500 after losing some money and adding to table. First 30 min so no good reads really.
Limp, I’m Hj and make it $15 with black JJ. Button makes it $45. Folds to means I flat. Button is like 30ish kid with glasses and looks like he can be aggro but no reall idea on how he plays. He has 600+. Flop 10-8-2 with all hearts. I x and he bets 50? ( not sure on exact size bc didn’t note but it was decent size). I call. Turn black Q. I x he bets $100 or 110. I call. River is a black 3. I x and he quickly jams. Any idea on what to do on River. Wanna say the jam was for $300-350 and he covered me.
I elected to fold as I think population at low nlhe doesn’t find bluffs enough on river when I x call flop and turn. Feel folding turn is way way too give up so I decided to call and see how he acts on river. Do you like?
I can say what he showed after discussion. Was a hand I thought he could have. Thoughts on how we should act on turn and river or should we fold turn ever?
15 Replies
Flop I think it might be a fold.
Most ppl don't range cbets on montone board except for the aggro players.
Turn I'm folding again.
River I think I'm calling after calling flop/turn. All hearts missed, he's repping AKhh/AQhh/AJhh/TT/QQ/J9
AA/KK not jamming. AKo w/Heart missed, all semibluffs missed.
So I think either fold flop/turn, river is a snap call I think.
Kinda gross I feel river is a call if I’m going to call turn and flop. I feel folding flop is nuts if we get such a nice flop for JJ.
I can see folding turn but feel button can easily 3! Fairly wider than normal if they think we are opening slightly wide as a way to iso a limper- especially in position against whole table. As always- I know it’s stupid to think like 1/3 players are 3! Wide though
Kinda gross I feel river is a call if I’m going to call turn and flop. I feel folding flop is nuts if we get such a nice flop for JJ. I can see folding turn but feel button can easily 3! Fairly wider than normal if they think we are opening slightly wide as a way to iso a limper- especially in position against whole table. As always- I know it’s stupid to think like 1/3 players
The thing is most regs are very very passive in 1/3. Most don't light 3bet. Occasionally you'll find some random aggro asian guys or aggro players but maybe 1 per table max? There are also some random aggro donks. But most of them don't light 3bet, they cbet/barrel/donk wide postflop but preflop are a bit passive.
First a little line talk:
Check-call flop, check-call turn - always consider donk jamming the river. This play gets folds so often it’s worth remembering
OTTH
Would have check-raised the monotone flop (did you have the jack of hearts?) to keep villain from claiming it. Now he has a little more to think about when I check the turn. If he keeps coming, I likely fold like you did - but if he checks back, the pot can be won.
As played, I really dislike calling down and folding like this. I think you’ve got to poke the bear - do realize how many use bet/fold strategies - all you have to do is raise & they go away.
Let’s face it, folding jacks is often a smart play, people underbluff the river - but in this particular instance, there was no clear evidence that you were beat. Villain flops a flush 1 in 122 attempts. If he doesn’t have that, what do you think is beating you?
No evidence I’m beat? I would say yes there is. Turn is a Q which hits AQ which I would include in his range. I would assume the 3! Range is something like 99+ AQ+ with maybe the odd KJ suited or Q-10 suited thrown in on the button (this might not be correct for 1-3 though)
Flop- I can x raise but what do we accomplish? His better hands continue and his worse hands fold.
River- I feel majority of 1-3 population isn’t bluffing 3 streets to a flop and turn call.
Felt his range was heavy AA/ KK/ AK/ AQ.
Btw he showed AK with the ace of hearts. Think my fold is good vs $1/3 population but prolly could sigh call vs this hero. The river jam is odd looking back bc most would just go for value and bet smaller (I think). I asked chat gpt and it said this was a good fold vs standard 1-3 population unless we had a certain read on villian.
First a little line talk:Check-call flop, check-call turn - always consider donk jamming the river. This play gets folds so often it’s worth rememberingOTTHWould have check-raised the monotone flop (did you have the jack of hearts?) to keep villain from claiming it. Now he has a little more to think about when I check the turn. If he keeps coming, I likely fold like you did - b
This donk jam thing you keep recommending isn’t a thing. V will just fold his bluffs and call with hands that beat us.
You would have check raised the flop and then checked turn?
How is there no clear evidence that hero is beat? V 3! Preflop, cbet large on the flop, continued for pot on the turn, and jammed river. What exactly would be evidence then?
I elected to fold as I think population at low nlhe doesn’t find bluffs enough on river when I x call flop and turn. Feel folding turn is way way too give up so I decided to call and see how he acts on river. Do you like?
Tough spot with no reads on V. I agree with the fold for the reasons you stated.
Not against calling turn and playing 5th street chicken, but I think we can also find some folds when V takes this size because even double barrels are underbluffed in 3! pots at 1/3, and when it is a bluff it’s usually not a psb
Would you ever fold turn knowing villian is prolly competent enough to bluff jam river.
I didn’t have solid read on player but younger ish 30s white guy that isn’t a stand omc or non thinker player.
I honestly did not like calling turn bc he can easily have AQ or maybe a goofy KQ JQ suited if he felt like getting wild pre on the button. I was just hoping for a x back on river. In game I did think he could easily have AK with one heart but it’s like idk. I feel calling the river is bingo and just praying he went crazy with A of hearts. Just think standard 1/3 population isn’t going crazy on river with a pure bluff enough to make this a good call. It’s annoying spot. Would be much easier if turn wasn’t a Q and just a low card
I agree but I kinda just folded quickly. I’m like what hand do I beat?
The only hands are Ax with A heart, and normally only hand in this range I think is logical is AK with a heart. Feel villian isn’t 3betting A5 A4 suited or AJ.
Prolly a call maybe. Just felt it would be spazzy to call and hope he has one had when he can easily have AA KK AQ. Just felt spot was underbluffed and a lot of folks wouldn’t rip the river bc to me- I feel most players are calling river when they call chunky cbet and turn bet at low stakes (1/3)
I agree but I kinda just folded quickly. I’m like what hand do I beat? The only hands are Ax with A heart, and normally only hand in this range I think is log
Yeah, definitely a spot I don’t hate hero calling against a V that seems capable, but also a spot where I remind myself it’s 1/3 and I can just print in easier spots so just fold and move on
This donk jam thing you keep recommending isn't a thing. V will just fold his bluffs and call with hands that beat us.
then
Monotone board is hard to range; what are his bluffs that he will fold? Why couldn’t he fold better? Simply said consider it
My recommendation was to x-raise the flop or fold - calling along is not a thing
This donk jam thing you keep recommending isn't a thing. V will just fold his bluffs and call with hands that beat us.
then
Monotone board is hard to range; what are his bluffs that he will fold? Why couldn’t he fold better? Simply said consider it
My recommendation was to x-raise the flop or fold - calling along is not a thing
His bluffs would be all his AhXx
Are we x/r flop as a bluff or for value? What hands are we targeting with this x/r and what is our plan on turn when he calls?
What do you mean that calling along is not a thing?
Grunch:
PRE - raise bigger. At least $20. As played, flat calling the BTN raise is probably the correct play in theory, but I'd be sorely tempted to 4B from OOP when it's a 30ish kid doing the 3B'ing from the BTN.
FLOP - With black JJ on T82hhh in a 3BP, it's going to be pretty hard to realize. Rather than check-call and guess, I might actually just donk out for a small size, like 10% pot, with a plan to barrel turn for another small size, and barrel river for a small size again.
As played, he's not supposed to be betting $50 into $90 on a monotone board in a 3BP, so I'd probably just LOL-fold and not worry about it.
TURN - Just check-fold. The board is only getting worse for our hand, and he's still betting, for a kinda chunky size, given the board texture.
RIVER - just check-fold.
Why do you want to donk the flop and continue on later streets?
Value from Ahx? If so, why 10%?
