The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Winni

An open minded debate is good. It is a debate as in the subject heading.

Way a debate works is I put my opinions across, they put theirs acrossÂ… or it should do.

But as in all poker forums we get this rigturd aggressiveness. When the moderators join in, clearly it’s a green light for the children to play!

I will never understand anyone backing sites to this extreme, unless they work for them or are sponsored by them.

For the huge incentives I have raised in my previous post and for the industries past record, any sane person would simply have to be open to the possibility. Not believe conclusively it is or itÂ’s not Â… but at least be open.

It will always be a debate because it is not possible to prove or not. My opinion is from what I see and also understand from a business perspective, is that it is very unlikely that sites have no interest in who wins and loses, or that it affects them either way, as is often their opening line.

I think when sites defend their decks with an opening line that appears untrue, it is the last piece of the puzzle for me.

But of course, only proof could ever conclusively solve this. I have never claimed to have proof, I just share my experience over 25yrs.

But I have an opinion that I like to share, as the vast majority do not understand why a site would even consider a deck which was not entirely random, because they can not see past the fact players are not playing against the site and against each other. They are unable to see the bigger picture as to why itÂ’s essential.

Nobody is backing sites to the extreme, almost every site has been criticized.
The only thats backed is the RNG because we have seen 0.0000000% to suggest otherwise.

Not really
or as AI says: Without evidence, your points are merely assertions and opinions, which are weak in the context of a formal debate

The only reason you value opinion over evidence is because you dont have the evidence or you cant be arsed to share it (not sure what would be worse actually)

You still dont get it huh, the knife cuts both ways

The avalanches of 4 outers, the statistical anomalies, the same people hitting every <20%, running 50/50 against someone over 100 HU's even though you got it in 80+% almost all time. You've all mentioned this as the reason why you believe poker is rigged. You've seen with your own eyes, remember.

IF all these things indeed did happen they are stored as importable hand histories...
So IF these things actually happened you do have proof (and you are actively withholding that proof so far)
Therefore the ONLY situation where you dont have proof is if all these extreme bad beat stories never actually happened...

right and the other night i was abducted by aliens. They did look very strange i dont even know how to describe how they looked but not like anything from our culture. anyway they mentioned some very important things for the future of earth. Of course I offer absolutely no evidence what so ever because despite cameras being on me and my phone to easily provide any evidence i did not use these. But you cant prove this didnt happen and i cant prove it did so why cant we just have a debate on this.

Let me guess; some strange virus infected your phone and camera deleting all the videos and photos of the aliens specifically...

Almost happens to riggies as well. As savvy as they are, there is always some technical issue preventing them from showing the evidence. Hand histories cant be imported, or cant be found/retrieved or they never even heard of the thing. Which is quite a weird leak considering they unraveled the ingenious rigged algorithm pattern all elite pro's didnt even noticed. Almost too uncanny🙂

Lol you were completely like this on the Sky forum too, where you would join in with the cool kids, then send me personal messages saying you were open to the theory and what were my thoughts on this and that. And then go back to the forum and mock again!

This is kind of what has happened to the rest of the 45% who dont believe or are undecided on here. Scared to comment cos of the resident trolls!

If you were abducted by aliens and knew that it happened... just because a few kids laughed at you and asked you to prove it, would you then pretend it didnt happen if you couldnt prove it? Then there was a tin pot planet forum that was entitled ' the great alien debate, do they exist' and people were sharing their experiences with 45% of people on it open to the fact they did..... you could share your experience or look at the content and think '**** me im not telling these lot, i have no proof'..... or grow a pair and talk about it.

Either way, it happened and you know it happened. I guess if you were witness to a serious crime, you would just forget it ever happened if the feds would not act upon it through lack of evidence. But you know it happened, but have no proof. All you are doing are enabling the culprit to continue doing it and letting the victims down by not fighting for justice.

I dont roll that way, im not influenced or worried by mindless frat boys.

Lets just do a summing up here of what is being asked of me and what is the facts of online poker;

1 is it rigged is a subject that has been at the forefront of the business for 25yrs
2 Thousands and thousands of players argue about it, around about a 50/50 spilt
3 a rig has never been proven over quarter of a century

But right here Mike Haven, Borat , TeflonDawg, BobtheSlob (you know those who misquote, misunderstand, lie, use non PC language,show anger management problems etc) can settle this argument right now, by TheWaddy, a small stakes omaha hi lo player from the mighty Sky poker, using a tracker.

They can prove the argument right now, conclusively and without recourse, by TheWaddy using a tracker. It might just break the internet.

Im gonna put it out there....

I dont think thay would prove anything.... either way.....

Undecided means undecided. It doesnt mean they are in the camp as the riggies otherwise they would have clicked that option.
Similarly you could also claim 65% of people say it isnt rigged here.
And if those riggies for once, just once, showed the hands and bad beats they talked about they could shut up all the trolls. You take a guess as to why that never ever happened.

Not the greatest analogy you could come up with.
For one; You do have evidence. Since you've seen the hands so therefore there are hand histories. The analogy would be correct if Winni has not only witnessed a crime but also videotaped it, then went online on a forum to talk about the crime but in any case refused to share the video because he "doesnt see the need to". Because thats exactly what tou do.
So it ironic that you blame Winni for "enabling the culprit to continue doing it"
Because this is exactly what you do
By refusing to post hand histories of all those bad beats and 4outer avalanches you've allegedly witnessed you are the only one of us withholding evidence against the culprit.

You have access to the proof needed to stop this culprit, the rigging pokersites, and you are the one doing nothing with it.
But apparently that is just how you roll.

You would never use non PC language right alzheimer boy? :p
This **** is just too funny. You cant even quote correctly, still dont understand an rng, randomness or patterns and you clearly have a very angry and unhealthy relationship with poker. Thats why you were complaining on a sky poker forum before but since it closed your anger had to be redirected to here.

Lets...
1 A rig has indeed never been proven while any other form of cheating has
2 No player capable of beating mid+ stakes believes its rigged
3 But a self-proclaimed small stakes omaha player, without the help of any software, unravaled this secret hidden rng algorithm that none of the way way smarter people with a knack for poker could. What a cinderalla story... Mostly in the sense that cinderella also is a complete fairy tale.

You still dont get it or refuse to get it. The hands you've described witnessing must imply a rig, they are that insane. So the only but very easy way to prove this rig is to see those hands... its the smoking gun. But the smoking gun you keep hidden.

But if you truly believe that we wouldnt prove anything with all your hands, give one of us your hand histories. You wouldnt have to use a tracker, we can do it for you.
One can easily prove that;
OR you indeed suffered avalanches of 4outers and other statistical anomalies that should never happen in a fair game, so it must be rigged
OR these things didnt happen at all and you live in a fairy tale and thats why you havent shown anything.
Since they definitely happend, what do you have to lose???

You see, the reason I cant prove avalanches of 4 outers is because it never happened to me. Not in 10 million+ hands.

And im gonna put it out there....

I dont think they ever happened to you either....

Slugant arguing with those Drooler riggies day in day out makes u look equally stupid. Who in their right mind would waste so much time on something like that?

Slugant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 8,632 Could anyone actually comprehend that? 8632 of repeating the same thing over and over and STILL does the longest posts known to man. After my 161 posts, i have lost the will to live......

Someone who gets a laugh out of it. Also, I dont mind defending the game that has given so much for over 20 years.

You've quit addressing me remember 🙂
Then again, you've also quit this thread a lot only to return the next day.

I know you are bad with everything technical. Thats why you cant quote correctly or use a tracker.. But if you click on the replies number next to the thread title you can actually see how many times someone has posted in that specific thread.
And you can take a look yourself... I am not even in the top 30 of most frequent posters in this thread.
I really got to step my game up :p

Because currently 5% of my posts on this forum are in the riggie thread. You could have seen all this data before making stuff up but of course ignoring data and making up your own fairy tale is what you do best 😉

I am not even close to counts of top posters but I enjoy many parts of this forum and am active in it. My interests here are wide; from sports to strategy to politics to charity pools to blogs to reading the incoherent delusions of riggies. The last one just never fails to put a smile on my face. Such a shame its only 5% of my posts
However, I've noticed that 151 out of your 161 posts are in this thread, which is 94%... You really have nothing to do besides crying about rigging huh:p
Maybe thats why...

This I understand. You might not comprehend my active role on this forum but at least I enjoy it. You keep on playing poker while it infuriates you. You keep on crying on poker forums while losing to will to live.
Could anyone actually comprehend that? 🙂

At this stage we, we have Waddy going onto the main poker forum in the world to rant about the unfairness of poker sites whilst simultaneously ranting at winning poker players and the moderator of the said forum.
Theres probably a lesson to be learnt in this regarding mental illness and gambling issues.

I wonder, but do you think that someone has their own opinion and is free to think as they wish without others having to impose their own opinion? I understand that Trump's trend is in vogue these days, but a little respect for other people's ideas! I don't want to accuse or defend anyone! It's just a point for a more productive dialogue for everyone! Obviously, I.M.O....

[QUOTE=puggimar;59271579]I wonder, but do you think that someone has their own opinion and is free to think as they wish without others having to impose their own opinion? I understand that Trump's trend is in vogue these days, but a little respect for other people's ideas! I don't want to accuse or defend anyone! It's just a point for a more productive dialogue for everyone! Obviously, I.M.O....

Amen.

eh what? so you argue someone is allowed their opinion but nobody else should offer (impose) theirs? lol, makes sense in your mind im sure.

There is no proof that Slugant has even played poker, nevermind be a winning player..... but he looks up JohnMir and myself and whatever he found under those names he claims that must be 100% their entire poker history. If we are using his own judgemental basis, hes never played poker.

I did put up the overview for a forum Moderator.... if you think this thread represents 'maintaining a positive environment', 'maintaining civil, respectful discourse' and 'ensuring respectful conversations'.... then im entitled to my opinion that its 'slightly' failing in these areas... but then again,the trolls have a proven record of not seeing whats staring them in the face.

i never once ever claimed you werent entitiled to your opinion, i simply stated people are allowed to have a differing one which if following your logic thats fine im sure. As for people ignoring things which are staring them in the face may i suggest a wild take....that is.....if you believe online poker is rigged then perhaps dont play online poker.

i think they can without calling someone with a different view, on something as unimportant as a deck of cards, a 'rigturd' or consistently claiming they are lying over really simple things such as what they do for a living, mocking and bullying in packs over the most trivial things.... if this is normal life to you, then i hope you dont have a partner, or worse, young children.....

I can still make a profit for the 45th time.

I once saw an international football manager say that the ball being used at the World Cup was performing very poorly.... i didnt see him quit and say he was never going to manage ever again.... i imagine he just adjusted his tactics... whilst maintaining he would like the ball to be changed......

Proof enough actually, even on this very forum. You just lack basic research skills and/or the basic effort to search for something.

You put up an AI overview for how a moderator should behave, and you feel he is wrong for not living up to it.
But i've put up an AI overview of how people in a debate should behave, and its main point was delivering evidence. So if you can use AI to set the standards here you are coming up short as well. For a productive dialogue baseless opinions arent enough, they need to be supported by numbers and facts.

Get off your high horse you moral crusader
If you cry (and run to the mod) about being called a rigturd and therefore hope they dont have you children than how do you feel about this guy:

Wow, insulting someone which such an awful disease
If this is normal to him, then i hope he doesnt have a partner, or worse, old parents.....

There is overwhelming evidence that Slugant has asked a huge amount of same questions over and over and over. He has replies on peoples stance on the subjects but just keeps asking the same, on and on and on. To the point i can no longer answer him.

I will mention his name, but simply cant answer 'why do you still play after 25yrs', 'why dont you get a tracker', 'why dont you give me your hand history', over and over and over. He has had answers multiple times for all these. I know he will 'quote' this and give another massive essay on these points again.

I have let myself down by responding to personal insults, by giving some back... JohnMir was a better man than i by keeping his decorum at all times during a barrage of abuse.... but in fairness Alzheimers symptoms include;

-Forgetting recent events, conversations or events

-Communication difficulty, struggling to find words or repeating statements

I dont think there is one person on here that would not see that in him......... It was not an unfounded insult (eg'rigturd' just cos ****** can not be typed, liar, etc) more of an observation that can not be denied.

Didn't Slugant ask you to play him heads up on a site of your choosing? Why not just play him?

You have proven to be really bad at understanding data and what statistics tell you. This is probably among the main things holding you back in poker.

The most important one is obviousöly the same one that Kept Johnmir from ever improving.

You have a ridiculous idea of your actual skills and capabilities. In essence you think you are good at something while being laughably bad and uninformed.

I am just quoting one of your various rambling incoherent posts instead of the specific one i am responding to.

You keep on bringing up that in your opinion around 45 to 50% of players think the rng online is rigged.

This is obviously wrong. As evidence you bring up the vote in this thread. The vote in this thread is not evident of that at all though. The correct deduction would be that around 45% of people that voted in this thread voted that it is rigged.

That doesn't even prove that 45% of people who voted in this thread think it si rigged.

There is quite a few people who voted for rigged as a troll and of course a lot of riggies got banned and have voted over and over again.

Trust Pilot is obviously also not proof of anything but the fact that a lot of losing gamblers are kind of idiots and cry to everyone that cant run away when the stories start.

Anyway yes in 25 years nothing has ever been proven. You have not contributed anything new.

Its har5d to believe your story about being a winning player, as you tell other stories that are just straight up lies. You didn't loose 8 90% chances in a row in Omaha h/l.

That being said, I have mentioned it before, if you play omaha h/l and are never all in with a hand that doesn't have a huge equity advantage it is quite clear why you get your ass handed to you.

I will write it out in full now. If you are so extremely tight that you only ever are all in pre flop with hands with such a huge equity advantage you essentially say i never go all in unless i have aces and 2 premium low cards.

If you actually play like that you obviously get slaughtered in non show down pots.

But why look into that when you can just complain about the deck being rigged when losing aces to a random hand.

You should be thanking him on you knees that he is willing to waste his time on your bullshit.

Only in Poker will a guy like you find a dude like Slugant. An expert and professional at the subject in question who actually shares his knowledge freely and takes time out of his day to help you but you have nothing but insults and disrespect because he doesnt tell you what you want to hear.

Well everybody can have their opinion. It just depends on the forum you trying to voice it in if this is a reasonable thing to do.

If you go into a Nasa conference and try to have a conversation about why you, an semi coherent simpleton, thinks the moon landing didn't happen, you wont have much success.

You will be laughed out of the conference.

So if you are talking to experts about a subject you have very little understanding about you cant demand that the experts drop everything and try to break things down to a level you can understand.

Although that actually happened here. So in essence the expert dropped everything and explained to him why he is wrong but he didnt like what he heard so he ignores it.

Waddy ignored it and drones on about the same nonsense. So yeah sure he can have his uninformed oppinion but he cant expect to be taken serious.

Woe is you eh?

Mate you came in talked nonsense. Were corrected and or asked for evidence of the obviously nonsensical Made up stories you tell.

You refuse to give any evidence. So in essence you make extra ordinary claims, provide no supporting evidence, ignore evidence to the contrary but expect to be taken seriously.

ridiculous.

Never trust someone who spell lose as loose….

Nothing of substance again.

Weird how you flipflop from oh everybody is a troll to trolling.

This is why I usually just poke fun at guys like you but invested quite some time into trying to help Johnmir.