GGPoker – “MoneyTaker69” superuser & new statistical anomalies

You could also play formats that are so ridiculously complicated that RTA is of no use, like Omaha tournaments.

It’s been a while and we still havent seen any actual data or analysis posted, which is a bit disappointing given the claims about statistical anomalies.

At the same time GG just keeps operating as usual, and if anything, the feeling that something is off hasn’t gone away. It’s not just about recreational players either it really feels like weaker regs are being protected as well. They don’t bust the way you’d expect, they hang around longer, and overall the pool dynamics start to feel unnatural over time.

The real problem is that even if something is happening its almost impossible to prove. You’re dealing with a completely closed system, no transparency, and limited access to meaningful data. So even if there are real irregularities, they can always be brushed off as variance or flawed methodology.

That’s what makes this so frustrating. There’s a constant sense that things aren’t quite right, but no practical way for players to actually verify or challenge it. And as long as that’s the case, there’s no real pressure on the site to explain anything.

I’m not claiming I have hard proof, but at this point it’s getting harder and harder to just accept everything as normal variance, especially when the same patterns seem to repeat

And it’s not just abstract patterns either. It’s the constant feeling of running into these “magical” runouts where everything lines up perfectly for the other side, combined with spots where you’re consistently getting outflopped in ways that just don’t feel random over time. Anyone who’s put in serious volume knows what normal variance looks like, and this just feels different.

At some point, someone with the right tools and access really needs to take a deeper look into this, because as it stands, players are left with serious doubts and no real way to get answers.

You say the problem is almost impossible to prove. But you also say recreationals and weaker regs are protected and this is a pattern, not even abstract.
Well, if this pattern is indeed happening so much it can certainly be proven, quite easily in fact.
Because you say there is limited access to meaningful data, well that isnt true. GG is being dataminded and its quite easy to gather millions and millions of hands on which you can find this pattern if it indeed is happening. Shouldnt be so hard.

But the only pattern I see (and its a 100% one) is that anyone who speaks of these statistical anomalies only keep it to talk, they never ever show any of it. And people who claim they see patterns do take the effort to write about them but never put in the effort of actually checking these patterns over a huge sample of hands.

The right tools is any poker tracker, the access is there for anyone who wants to research it. So if you think you see a pattern, why dont you pick up the shovel and do the digging. That way players arent left with serious doubts and have real answers😉

I get what you’re saying and in theory yeah if something is off it should show in the data
But in reality it’s not that simple. We’re working with incomplete information no access to the full pool and no visibility into how anything is actually implemented behind the scenes. Even large samples can look like variance if something subtle is going on
I’m not claiming proof here. I just think some of the patterns people are noticing don’t feel like standard variance especially over high volume
If someone has the tools to actually dig into this properly, they should. Right now it’s just something a lot of people feel but can’t really prove

So you do not get what im saying. At all.

Because if you are working with incomplete information, no access or visibility and it very well can look like variance, like you claim... Why isnt it variance? Why attribute it to something else? This is basic Occams razor.

But then you say you notice patterns that arent standard.
Well, if you just notice these pattern with just your eyes can you imagine what a tracker could notice with all the data from your entire sample. It would be easy to prove these patterns exist! Especially over high volume.
If I see a pattern with my eyes my tracker sees the same with perfect memory. If it doenst see the pattern I saw I must be struck by confirmation bias, which is extremely common in poker btw.

And again, its possible to download millions and millions of hand histories that can be used to show these patterns. So dont say a lack of access is the issue here. In fact you definitely have access to your own hand histories which is the sample that showed you these patterns in the first place.

Since you repeat I repeat:
The right tools is any poker tracker, the access is there for anyone who wants to research it. So if you think you see a pattern, why dont you pick up the shovel and do the digging. That way players arent left with serious doubts and have real answers😉

You (can) have the right tools.. 1 poker tracker is enough, they also have free 2 week trials so If you dont have one right now it wont cost you a cent.
You have access to hand histories.. You can use your own sample (the one that led you to believe something is off and showed you unstandard patterns) and you can even supplement with this with downloaded hand histories.

So you have all that you need to turn this feeling into facts.

Honestly, what is holding you back?

@exposegg Literally 1 page before I posted a screenshot of the results at GG with a tool built by me:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Did you see my post and if so, why do you choose to ignore it? I mean, you state something doesn't feel right at GG, but obv you can't be arsed to investigate on your own to underlay your statement with some proof, so at least lmk where I'm wrong in stating that at GG everything is just fine in terms of fairness in the game?! In b4, I don't like GG, they suck at everything else, but games being rigged, it's not.

There is no evidence GG's RNG isn't fair, thousands of people have earnt a living playing on GG poker for years. Losing players or winning players not realising downswings can last hundreds of thousands of hands will always rather blame something other than themselves. Like myself and others pointed out right away the OP clearly wasn't credible and had nothing better to do than attention seek posting on here.

Slugant isnt just some loser won this forum for fun... this is his job lol... he is a shill for GG hahahahahhaa.. Truly pathetic Slugant.

Dont even reply Slugant I knew what you were after one conversation haha. You have to act more human you are too obvious

Oh I'll reply if I want to 😉

And its obvious I am a paid shill for GG. I've criticized everything about their site but I did say their RNG is fair til proven otherwise.... And they pay me millions to say this 😃

Maybe you should ask OP to reply though...
He has the evidence to expose GG's RNG but is waiting to release it at the "appropriate time"
Such unfortunate bad luck that the appropriate time still hasnt happened yet in almost a years time, I wonder why🙂

Ahh right, nothing pathetic about continuing to play a game you think is rigged though right, and then bang on about it in forums and when asked to provide any meaningful information all you can cry is "Shill".

In the other thread you have one lunatic who says they can't use a tracker, a wally with a brolly who couldn't be arsed to use one and another who thought he was the David Blaine of poker saying he could predict the cards until he spectacularly failed on a stream and deleted it very quickly.

[Quote=Lil Larusso] I had very good pattern recognition as well as poker awareness and i can tell when accounts are cheat accounts... some i remember from poker stars = "3Curry" "Nukethefish!", Cbart05, "Dan Almeida"................. these were all hosue accounts for the site.... played with them thousands of times and they sun run non stop while playing like a basic average player. GG ontario also has house accounts "JSilverstein" "Julian perouse".... average players who never bluff who somehow crush and up hundreds of thousands.

GG and Pokerstars both hate me because im an elite player and expose their algorithm.. i can also spot house accounts and let them know and they dont like it[Quote]

[Quote=chabby36] Stop making things up. Nuke is Dan Wilson, an Irish pro with over 2 million in live earnings.

Or is live poker rigged as well ?[Quote]

These are from pokerArgentina94's blog.

Trying to emulate the David Blaine of poker and like the other guy failed miserably and then doubled down on it.

[Quote=Lil Larusso] Is he really? Well im not making that up.. that happened and its on youtube.... and yes im guessing the site does "help" mr Wilson. What are the odds the guy with most miraculous luck is a live pro with millions in cashes.. that honestly just makes it even crazier. I literally looked his name up on youtube which ive never done for any other player because the way he 2 outered me and then played the hour after i watched made me feel suspcious.. how crazy he went back to back sunday million final tables.. and just missed 3rd in a row... meanwhile i play amazing poker and cant win 2 flips in a row for my life on GG or Jokerstars hahahahha[Quote]

You are my hero.

"GG and Pokerstars both hate me because im an elite player and expose their algorithm"
😃😃😃

Why do all these riggies always think they are elite or professional level even though they suck

And I know because I have very good pattern recognition as well as poker awareness and i can tell when accounts are stupid people accounts.. some i remember = Lil Larusso, TheWaddy, Johnmir, Amazing, GGruinedPoker just to name a few.
Now what are the chances one of them turns out to be a live pro with 2m+ winnings :p

Honestly I don’t get why you’re so eager to defend GG this hard.

No one is saying this is proven, but acting like there’s zero chance anything is off doesn’t make sense either. It’s a closed system and the incentives are obvious. If weaker players and especially weaker regs run better or lose slower, money stays in the pool longer and the site makes more rake.

And it’s not just a feeling. The number of runouts that seem to favor weaker regs over big samples is honestly insane. At some point it stops feeling like normal variance and starts raising real questions.

I’m not saying I can prove it’s rigged, but blindly dismissing everything as variance isn’t convincing either. This is exactly the kind of setup that should be questioned, not defended.

So according to you nobody is saying its proven and you also say you cant prove its rigged but you also claim that "The number of runouts that seem to favor weaker regs over big samples is honestly insane"

You do realize those are contradictory statements right? Because if the runous favoring weaker regs is honestly insane over big samples than that can be proven, otherwise you wouldnt have seen it happen 😉
In fact, if you witnessed those runouts (and you did because its not just a feeling) you can show that pattern to us...

But instead you do the same as OP. Make a statement that you've seen the most absurd things over and over again, but never really show up with the goods. Thats where the problem is.
OP is apparently still waiting for the "appropriate time" to release his evidence.
Any idea why?

Im not defending GG, if there is rigging going on I want to know. So its very annoying to hear people talking about crazy runouts over big samples without ever showing those stats. Especially since its not even hard work to show those numbers.

Can you imagine that a lot of people dont believe those tales about favored players when the proof is never ever shown?
At some point its not about raising real questions, its about showing the answers to those questions!

- Is that what you feel has been happening or is that what's really happening?
- Could it be possible that your perception of what's happening is biased?

He preceeded it by saying Its not just a feeling so he must have facts on his side.
If only we got to see those facts too.

Nothingburger.

This is wrong and incomplete logic. In the example of a 3 way pot with two regs seeing the flop yes you might slightly under realize your EV. What about a reg heavy game where all the regs fold pre and you go to the flop with AK vs a fish with T3 and flop is AT3. In that example you should slightly over realize your equity as the folded regs cards will contain more 3x than Ax right?

Is my thinking correct here?

I put it in solver before, it doesnt hold up

GG, over 10 years ago.

I actually couldnt believe it when i saw that GG was the biggest site worldwide when i came back. A fully cheating site becoming mainstream.

It was almost as rigged and obvious as the indonesian site wheres 1 out of 3 hands has quads.

Care to share some source or evidence about korean bots with access to hole cards and that nobody was winning

Sounds like one hell of a claim to back up about this "fully cheating site" but since you say "Anyone that was a pro when GG came out years and years ago remembers" it must be quite easy to find some documentation baout this.

I was a pro when GG came out and was quick to join but saw nothing of all this and it also the first time I hear about these old school korean bots with access to hole cards.
It sounds more like a cool story than a retelling of what exactly happened.
But if you have anything on the contrary (and this must be easy since every pro knows and access to hole cards is a huge deal) I'd happily let you convince me that it actually did happen in real life😉

I absolutely do not care, you may not have been playing the real first GG either.

It was so long ago(i also have SDAM which makes it very hard to explain memories) and i only remember some of it because it's when i decided to stop getting staked on shady sites and play for myself. GG started shady, they could easily have backdoors and it would make sense with all the blocks they do on people making 3rd party tools.

Even my government made room had a way to see other people's hole card on the ipad only. they went to court and had to pay a settlement.

I was in the group that helped partypoker take down hundreds of bots, so its not like im ******ed. Im a big winner and even today i win decently playing part time without having ever studied.

I mean, you understand why its hard to believe such a story when someone with SDAM (Severely Deficient Autobiographical Memory) is remembering it from 10+ years ago.

And yes, I was playing the start of GG and unlike you I never found it to be "almost as rigged and obvious as the indonesian site wheres 1 out of 3 hands has quads."

Thats quite a bonkers statement, but then again, that might be the SDAM talking.

But talking about bonkers statements... OP, when is it the appropriate time for you to release the full analysis with the "statistically significant deviations"?
Its been over a year

Is anybody else seriously questioning what's happening on GG lately?

I'm not talking about a downswing. I'm talking about the direction the site has been moving for a long time.

First came PVI. Then rake changes. Every major update seems to make the environment less favorable for long-term winning regs while making the ecosystem more profitable for the site.

Now there's the thread where someone claimed to have found statistically significant deviations between stronger and weaker winning regs. Months later we're still waiting for the data. If those analyses exist they should be released so everyone can examine them.

What bothers me is that everything points in the same direction. A completely closed ecosystem, no transparency, constant changes that reduce reg profitability, and games that increasingly feel different from what many long-term grinders remember.

I'm not saying I can prove the RNG is being manipulated. I can't. But I also don't think players should simply ignore these concerns. When a company already has mechanisms designed to shape the economics of the games, asking difficult questions is completely reasonable.

If nothing unusual is happening, great. Publish more transparency and let independent analysts verify it. If someone has the large datasets they claim to have, release them.

At this point I think the burden is on the people making statistical claims to publish their work, and on GG to recognize that player confidence depends on transparency, not just assurances