2/5 JJ how to play oop??

Every single time that it was your turn, you should have chosen the aggressive action instead of the passive one.

Stop check/calling

Start bet/folding

Your line is good, now check raise vs this weak bet and call.

he's trying to cap you. Flop is fine, but turn you need to raise since it's clear both of them have a piece and they need to pay to play.

PRE - sure seems like we could raise bigger in this game.

FLOP - how are you ranging your opponents?

Seems to me that most low stakes players are likely to bet bigger or check raise over a smallish bet with 2P+. I think we could x/r the flop.

TURN - that 2c is just a brick. Once V3 check-over-calls the flop, I'm not checking again on the turn, and risking the action checking through. With $260 in the pot, I'm donking at least $200, if not $300.

As played, raise huge.

As played you're likely ahead, but I would still just call. If you raise, you're not doing well against the range that puts all their chips in. Likewise check raising the flop would have also been an overplay.

That being said they're going to have a lot of draws, and by playing the hand passively you're allowing them to realize their equity for cheap.

All your opponents are labeled as passive, and as much as it pains me to say this I agree with president douche on this one. You would have been better off walking the dog, setting your own price by betting flop and turn and keeping your own range uncapped. You could take the same line with AA, 99 or KQd. Playing aggressively keeps your range strong and undefined and makes it difficult for anyone to raise without a real hand. If they do raise you just fold.

As played your hand is under repped, but if you check raise and get called you're just putting yourself in a ton of difficult river spots OOP where you have no idea where you're at. So call and check call river a lot. The straight and flush completing rivers are the ones you'll have to use some discretion on, possibly check folding sometimes when those cards hit and someone bets with a large size.

What are these contradictions? You just ranged him for overpairs and nutted draws and then say he's underrepped???? Since when are overpairs and big draws considered uncapped? Cbetting flop just caps you to a strong range instead of weak one. The whole point of remaining uncapped is to have board coverage. His opponents are the one's difficult to range in this spot. And betting just to induce a raise so you can lol-fold aces is um.... interesting.

Really... what difficult river spot do we end up in if opponent calls us down. If the draws complete they have it. If they werent drawing they would have raised their 2p+ and just folded everything else. This hand plays pretty easy if you dont mind building a pot for someone else to win.

I'm saying the OP could have those other strong hands when he bets flop and bets turn. He's almost never check calling with the absolute top of his range, so he unnecessarily capped his own range by playing a check call line on the flop.

Remaining uncapped is not only important for board coverage. You can also leverage the top of your range to allow you to value bet more marginal value hands like this one. Not to mention the fact that JJ is vulnerable to being outdrawn, so it benefits your hand just to fold out trashy hands like Axs on the flop.

Don't get me wrong, I think check calling is pretty standard against aggro opponents who will get out of line bluffing more than calling, but reread the villain descriptions. Two of the three opponents are described as loose passive and the third is described as generally nitty. You make money from loose passive opponents by bet folding.

I can't even make sense of what you're trying to say here. What line are you advocating for? Check calling turn? Check raising turn?

Instead of criticizing my post how about you say what you would have done?

I'm saying when we bet and get called on the flop and bet again and get called on the turn, we are the ones that are uncapped and the loose passive players are the ones playing a guessing game. If they raise the flop or turn into our strong, uncapped range JJ is in poor shape and just folds.

As played THEY are the ones who are uncapped and WE are the ones with a capped range playing a guessing game.

Yes i am advocating for x/c flop and x/r turn. Possibly even x/r flop. Live players are going to monkeybet these textures all day if they connect *at all*. So we use their sizing as an indicator of strength. No fish bets 1/3 pot multiway on a wet dynamic board with a set. They bet big to charge everyone else for drawing. But lets just say for a moment they are clever enough to downbet to and keep hands like ours in, on the turn they are going to start sizing way up for value. From the fish's POV a bet like this just screams "i still dont know where I'm at, please tell me so I dont valueown myself" which at this point we might as well let him know and raise just to give him poor odds to realize whatever equity he has left. Now if one of them 3bets the turn or something outrageous we can realize we f'ed up and just fold.

You realize the downsides of the line you're advocating for though, right? When you check flop you're relying on your passive opponents to bet and build a pot for you. Oftentimes the flop will just check through.

Even after they bet, by only calling flop you're relying on a clean turn. Any card of 4 or higher as well as any diamond is somewhat of a scare card.

So you're taking this line just on the offchance that someone bets flop, you call, and you might get one of the few blanks on the turn?

Jackpot you got the 2c. Now what? You raise and let's assume you get called.

What then? Any card of 4 or higher or any diamond still completes some sort of draw on the river.

Let's say you get a somewhat neutral card on the river, like the Tc or Qs. Now what do you do OOP after raising turn and getting called?

There's value in checking and letting your aggressive opponents blast off into you while you call down in some scenarios.

When you're up against loose passive opponents you're better off just doing the betting yourself.

played perfectly so far. call again.

Check-raise flop $120
You need to thin the field
This is another wet flop that villains are unlikely to hit hard, but might have a piece. I don’t know what happens from here as it completely changes the story.

Technically, you’re slow playing a big pair which is asking to be cracked.
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V betting small on the turn is often looking for the slow play. Even passive players with monsters will bet thinking they waited all day for this set and need to get more value.

If v doesn’t get raised, he assume his thin value is good. There’s a place for small bets on the turn.

So, what I’m saying is you can raise and likely convince v1 to fold - not sure about v2 still calling along. As played, l think you let them catch-up and probably after the river you will face 2pair+

Summary: nobody knows how to play jacks
I play them fast early and then slow down when villain doesn’t go away

There are three ways to play jacks, and they're all wrong.

With this preflop action and this specific flop, no Villain should ever have an overpair bigger than ours. Our hand is virtually the same as AA right now.

Would any of you check/call the flop with AA??

I'm guessing you wouldn't.

But in this hand, you've all invented some crazy multi-street check/raise gymnastics worrying about pinpointing the exact cap of everyone's range. The resulting consensus is: "GarSh daNg it! De3z GeRd DaM JaX iZ 2 haRd to pLaY!!!"

Edit: Surely it would be too obvious if I did it. But it would be a really cool experiment if someone came along in a few weeks and just casually posted a hand with this exact same action but with Hero holding AA.

I would say it was a bit of an overplay, but not a total punt. It was kind of a perfect storm that set you up, between the total blank on the turn, the small turn bet sizing, and the caller. I can see why you would think you were ahead and needed to raise for protection.

Sometimes you're likely ahead, but can't effectively protect your hand because you run into too strong of a range when you raise and get called. I think this hand was an example of that scenario. Other than strong combo-type draws, what hands that you beat would continue vs your raise? I doubt A9 would call. Maybe exactly TT might be the one hand, but even that COULD fold, and sets and 2 pair are never folding. Tough one.

with a loose passive fish in MP I like opening largish here UTG
where this hand went off the rails is it went 5 way
and when there is a loose passive fish that is going to call wide, the hand is going to go 3 or 4 way a lot, sometimes 5 way if we open 4x UTG
because MP will VPIP like crazy and then button and blinds will get a nice price

as played JJ isn't a hand we want to be putting all the money in postflop multiway on this board vs this player lineup
and you're probably right in your reads that this is a loose aggro player, a loose passive player, a tight passive player and an average rec
if we sail all the money in here on this board vs this mixup we aren't going to be getting it in good

i like flop x/c, give us an option to see SB and BB act, (we have already seem MP check so we can be less worried about him) after sb cc and bb fold though, i would be inclined to raise this small-ish sizing to 100-125 here unblocking diamonds. Mp has already checked after having the option to stab, SB and bb had an opportunity to x/r and chose not to. i dont want to give mp a good price to overcall. That said calling is fine aswell, i know your not supposed to adjust your play based on outcomes but if i have been running fairly well i would go for x/r or if its been a tough night i would likely x/c. just being honest.

turn i dont like x/c, V2 has a very weak sdv/weak draw type hand based on 2 x/c and V1 small sizing makes sense for a weak sdv/draw as well. thats laying too good of a price so i think weak means weak here. i am x/r this turn to 225-300

Did v1 become v2 in the HH?

I think you’re trying to play perfect poker
If you’re trying to recognize and fold to sets, it’s not an easy road. I wish I knew how to do it

I don’t get to play 2/5 very often, but I would bet 20 pre in 1/3 so I think you should have gone much bigger. Playing JJ in a 5way pot is to be avoided if at all possible.

When v bets, it’s value - so no raising now with a vulnerable 1Pair hand

Not sure my flop raise would have helped much, the others will fold, but he’s going to call. You might have gotten to check back the turn.

I don’t understand the turn check-raise?
At this point, you should be trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible with a vulnerable 1Pair hand. You could have lost a lot less, because this guy’s not betting much.

You’re being too hard on yourself. You made your read and went with it. Sometimes it doesn’t work out. This was not an easy solution.

Congrats on winning consistently lately!