"Private game" at casino destroying the regular game
I play a lot of Omaha at my local casino but recently there have been some unfortunate developments. A few sharks who previously ran home games and are very good at being social and making the fish want to be around them have started hosting a private Omaha game at the casino. I wouldn't really mind if they invited their own people and kept it that way but the problem is they literally sit there cherry picking the worst players from our normal game 1 by 1 every time a seat opens. A lot of nights they even break our game with their shenanigans, and of course I can't get into their game until its nearly over because I'm one of the better players. I get that everyone wants to maximize profits and do what's best for them, but this just seems downright unfair and scummy on their part. Several of us regulars who play at the casino way more than them and drive a long way to get there are left in the cold. I've spoken to the floor about it and they say there's nothing they can do because the stakes are slightly different and private games are allowed. All the floor people love these guys so they pretty much get free reign. There isn't even a contact email for the room and I get the sense that the manager doesn't care much.
Is there anything that can be done? I considered contacting state regulators about it but if it's legal I'm guessing they can't/won't do anything either.
22 Replies
I’m no expert by any means, but you can’t force players to remain in a game at one stake level if they wish to switch to a game with different stakes. The only real question is whether it’s legal in your jurisdiction for a casino to offer a game where access is controlled by one or more players rather than have seats filled using a public wait list. I certainly don’t know the answer to that - you’d have to check with your gaming regulators.
Yeah that's a good response from stremba. If my understanding is correct, I think what they're doing would be illegal in Nevada. There's probably no law against it in a lot of jurisdictions though.
In Florida I've encountered the same thing you're dealing with, and I agree that it's not right, but I'm not sure what you can really do about it. I'm fortunate to have enough other options that I just stopped playing in the poker room where this was occurring.
Perhaps not coincidentally I've heard that the games have completely died in that room, even though they had a healthy ecosystem a year or two ago. It probably had a lot to do with the private game runners making the rounds anytime a seat opened up in their game and poaching the biggest whale they could find from the public games.
What if every time they came by trying to steal a player, you made a joke out of it and started saying in a broadcaster's voice, "Who's it going to be? Jack is up again and picking in the donkey draft. Which donkey is he going to pick next?"
If you do it before they actually single anyone out, it could come across as good-natured ribbing. You're kind of adding social pressure for them not to single anyone out in your game, and it makes it more likely that people in your game will feel sheepish about being asked and turn them down when asked to change tables. The private game runners are probably making the whales feel special to be invited to their game, but the whales should really feel insulted.
Admittedly it does take a certain type of personality to pull this off without getting punched in the face.
Not gonna help your situation now, but if a bunch of action recs prefer playing with other sharks to you, you’ve got a tremendous opportunity to improve for the future
A similar thing happened in our area. The poker rooms mostly wisened up and stopped allowing their games to run after a few months. They were literally allowing slimy degens to run formerly illegal games in their casinos. One casino still allows it. And the guys who run that game play at the other rooms and anytime they come across an action player they try to lure them to their game.
Many of the whales are easily lured by feeling special for being invited Into the club.
I would either stop playing at the casino (until they ended the crazy private game) or if there were no other casinos nearby or the games were better in this one, I would let all of the players at the table know what was going on and who the sharks were, how good they are, and what their intention is (to choose which players they were going to take money from). Hopefully the players who are being taken advantage of would realize what is going on and not go to the game.
Another option is to make the “regular”game fun for the fish…. Just sayin’…
If it's going down the way it went down at the casino I mentioned, it's not about them leaving the public game because it's not good. I saw players get poached from games where everyone was drinking and the money was flying. It was more like the game runners would cozy up to the whales and make them feel like they're friends, then say, "Hey, you should come play with us."
Yep that's pretty much how it goes down as well as them constantly brainwashing the whales telling them how tight and bad the regular games are. And of course, they ARE tighter and worse because they don't have almost all cherry picked whales.
If it's going down the way it went down at the casino I mentioned, it's not about them leaving the public game because it's not good. I saw players get patched from games where everyone was drinking and the money was flying. It was more like the game runners would cozy up to
Whales have a right to choose games that they feel are best/most interesting for them. Why not cozy up to them before the game runners get to them and become friends with them? Why not start a private casino game of your own and get them to play?
There is a lesson here. The answer to my second question is that it takes a lot of time, effort, and socializing to maintain a private game. Most people don't want to do all of that. However that is what it takes.
Just because a player is technically good at poker does not give them the right to always have juicy opponents to play against. If you want to make lots of money at poker, the most important sklll is still the ability to get 6 or 7 bad, but wealthy players to consistently play against you. That is a far more important skill than who knows 3 bet ranges the best.
TDLR, if you want the whales to stay in your public games, make it more attractive to them than the private game or make a more attractive private game yourself.
I agree with you in principle, but private game runners shouldn't be pulling strangers from the public games IMO. At that point it's not a private game anymore.
Any casino that allows that is also shooting themselves in the foot, because it will destroy the ecosystem on the public side. That's especially true if they're breaking the public games by pulling players out of them like the OP described.
It's amazing how many of the regular players in Vegas public games are jerks to the recreational players.
Based on how you described the situation, is there any way you could take this as an opportunity to improve your social skills and network with some other players there to offer up a competing "private game" at the same venue?
Easier said than done I'm introverted and have never been very social/don't have a lot to say in general. I do make it a point to always be polite and courteous no matter what but that's as far as I've gone. I get your points that it's important and I do need to work on it I suppose. But for now it's a lost cause in this case I think. Don't think there's any way I could win the crowd over from said game runners.
Easier said than done I'm introverted and have never been very social/don't have a lot to say in general. I do make it a point to always be polite and courteous no matter what but that's as far as I've gone. I get your points that it's important and I do need to work on it I suppose. But for now it's a lost cause in this case I think. Don't think there's any way I could win the
This isn't a great situation for sure where you only have access to this game.
It's time to come up with other options most likely: Playing online, side gig, or find a different live venue.
Are any of those options viable for you?
What games and stakes are u playing?
As for private games pulling players from public games, you might as well say pros shouldn't be raising new players when the pros have the nuts. Poker is a predatory game.
The best lesson to learn about poker is that pure poker skill is not the most important factor. Finding and maintaining games with worse players in it is far more important.
I do have some other options but that place was one of my favorites. I'll just have to work on my ass kissing and try to see it doesn't go down this way at the other places.
I do have some other options but that place was one of my favorites. I'll just have to work on my ass kissing and try to see it doesn't go down this way at the other places.
You might want to tell senior management at the casino that you are leaving and why. Also let them know that once the private game is no longer there you would be coming back and that you will check in like every six months to see.
If you aren’t tipping the supervisors or management (which the game runners are 100% doing), good luck with stopping the issue.
That's not allowed supposedly. I guess it could be happening outside the casino?
I would assume they are not tipping outside the venue as a default, since that would require people to risk their job
Have you posted about these games in the venues section? That could get more attention.
I would assume they are not tipping outside the venue as a default, since that would require people to risk their job
Have you posted about these games in the venues section? That could get more attention.
So the floors are letting the predators hurt the base games for free? Of course they are getting a cut.
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