GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

here's how the Miami Big 3 really happened:

It's a trainwreck to lose a 7 game series and winnable series while averaging 26 on 35% with 5 TO's.. If MJ did that, it would be a goat choke, yet that's what Lebron did in the 08' ECSF...

Lebron was also one of the 10 biggest favorites to ever lose a series in the 09' and 10' Playoffs, so that's 2 more trainwrecks... He had the famous meltdown during the 2010 upset, while also having several historic chokes during the 09' upset..

Then he played worse than anyone ever has in the 07' Finals with an unprecedented 35% and 6 TO's, so that's 4 straight trainwrecks from 07' to 10'.. He was a perennial trainwreck, so he formed super-teams - that's the historical record.. And again, the reason he needs the most supporting talent is because his skillset produces the worst chemistry (by increasing everyone's spot-up role/assisted buckets)..

Btw, in contrast to 22-year old Lebron playing worse than anyone ever has against the Spurs, Kobe and Amare had goat domination against the Spurs at the same age

LeBron said previously how he'd love to play with Klay.

In 2008, Jamison was 14th for MVP and considered better than Pau.. He would've remained better than Pau in 09' and 10' if Lebron won titles like he was favored to.

Unfortunately, Lebron had a 7 turnovers in the 4th and OT of critical Game 4 that swung the 09' ECF, and then he had the historic meltdown in 2010.. Consequently, Pau sprinted past Jamison in the history books.

Secondly, Kobe got Pau, and then Lebron got 2 guys that were much BETTER than Pau, so how is that fair??... Lebron put 3 franchise players on 1 team, which formed the league's only super-team from 11' to 16' and a record 6 straight preseason favorites... It was unprecedented help that forced KD to respond, but his advantage only lasted half as long as Lebron's (17-19' vs 11-16')..

Btw, in addition to putting 3 franchise players on 1 team, the Lebron/Wade duo was the first time that the league's top 2 producers joined forces, aka Jokic/SGA, Magic/Bird, etc..

Ultimately, Lebron was gifted sure-fire dynasty rosters but could barely win 1 title at each stop among a sea of historic losses .. He doesn't have a winning record with any type of good roster, such as 4-4 with preseason favorites, 4-6 with Finals teams, 4-5 with 1 or 2 seeds, and 4-8 with an all-star teammate... Meanwhile, Jordan is undefeated in all these scenarios, except 6-2 with all-star teammates.

Respond to the video you copy/pasting pretender.

If Klay replaces Mo, who is going to provide the playmaking help that Lebron has always needed to have a viable team??

Jeff McGinnis led the Cavs in assists for Lebron's rookie year, and then Eric Snow provided 5 APG, while Larry Hughes was acquired as a 5-assist guy.. Then Mo arrived as a 6-assist guy... Then there was Wade, Kyrie, Rondo and Luka.. Lebron actually claimed that Kyrie wasn't enough playmaking help, so Klay would never be enough and therefore couldn't replace Mo.

Secondly, Klay is a career 2nd option that requires the 1st option to carry the scoring load in the Finals or against top teams.. Unfortunately, excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, so Lebron never successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level (never defeated max defensive attention), and never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (never carried weak help over top teams)..

Since Lebron can't carry the scoring load, he needs 1st options to play sidekick that can match him in scoring... Accordingly , he can't win with career 2nd options that need carrying like Klay, Mo or Pippen.

Wade is lying because the "decision" gave Lebron unprecedented help that Pau doesn't compare with.

Specifically, the Lebron/Wade duo was the first time that the league's top 2 producers joined forces, aka Jokic/SGA, Magic/Bird, etc.. Infact, lebron's THIRD option was much better than Pau (Bosh, Love), so Lebron's casts dwarf Kobe's.

Lebron hand-picked a record 6 straight preseason favorites from 11' to 16', and this unprecedented advantage over the league lasted twice as long as KD's (17-19').

Furthermore, Jamison was considered on-par with Pau in 2008 and would be considered superior if Lebron had simply won in 09' and 10' as expected.. Jamison would've been considered the unfair pickup that was added to a 66-win league favorite

That's not what I said but this is par for the course.

Is it reading comprehension or lying? Maybe it's fallguy.

I said no one wants to live in Cleveland over Miami.

You just can't argue facts straight up, it's always the duplicitous act with you. Mo and Jamison were traded to Cleveland.

And shocking that an overpriced mid-tier free agent that was Cleveland's third option (after Ray Allen and Michael Redd) signed to play with LeBron James opportunistically after a career year.

That has absolutely nothing to do with elite free agents wanting to live in Cleveland over Miami.

You have such a MJ-basketball-narrative driven brain that you can't acknowledge obvious real-world things.

Sigh, again: trades.

And not anywhere near elite players at that point regardless. I wonder why Cleveland kept having to trade for players past-their-prime on bad contracts that their previous team was happy to jettison?

lol k

lol k

lol k

Larry Hughes is an army of dudes in and of himself.

Your dumb opinions are impenetrable.

You had just said they were similar caliber. I stated facts showing that was silly and you then backed down from the argument. Then you come back and now say Jamison was superior.

It's really sad tbh. People like you are why everything is going to ****.

Eh, ‘07 Cavs thump the Spurs with ‘01 Shaq.

Of course, Shaq would’ve been the MVP of that series, so that probably proves something.

MJ~Shaq>Kobe>>LeBron?

Lebron didn't have to leave Cleveland because tons of guys went there, including guys that were on-par with Pau (Jamison), or better than 90' and 93' Pippen (Mo, Hughes, Zydrunas, Jamison).

So Lebron received tons of help from other teams, while Jordan's first three-peat didn't have additions from other teams - he simply built a lottery roster into champion.

Again, the talent was there in Cleveland, so Lebron didn't have to leave and left due to the SHAME of losing the conference twice as a massive favorite.. The 2010 meltdown was baby-like and head-scratching - what a pathetic loser. - the GOAT choker

You never addressed Love and Bosh being better than Pau - you never addressed Kobe winning with less, and instead you harped on Antawn as a way out of the argument.

So you lost and I'm quite comfortable with the results of our discussion.

^^^ It's not fun because you were completely destroyed - every point you made was blown up like Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Any literate person can see that in the last couple pages of this thread.

The 2007 Cavs would've won the Finals EASILY if Lebron played like 22-year old Amare or Kobe did against the Spurs:

Stats vs Spurs at 22 years old

05' AMARE......... 37 on 55%
02' KOBE'........... 33 on 53%
07' LEBRON....... 22 on 35% (6 TO's)

^^^ Clearly, the Cavs would've won the 07' Finals if Lebron played as well as Amare or Kobe...

The last 3 games were all 1 possession affairs in the 4th despite Lebron's worst-ever performance.

When you play worse than anyone ever has (35% and 6 TO's), you deserve to get knocked for it

Btw, Shaq was swept for the first 7 seasons of his playoff career despite casts that had 4 all-stars (98'), or 1st team All-NBA teammates (Penny) - so he would certainly get swept with a 22 on 35% bum like LeBrick at 22 years old.. LeBrick actually REPEATED this worst-ever performance against the 08' Celtics, so he simply couldn't compete viably against championship comp at that time..

Accordingly, if we put Hack-A-Shaq alongside LeBrick, you would have a team with 2 horrific clutch FT shooters that can't operate in the 4th quarter.. It would be 2 of the biggest chokers ever on the same team... Both guys need CLOSERS like Wade, Kobe or Kyrie, so they could never win with each other (fellow bricklayers and clutch chokers)..

Jamison finishing 14th in MVP voting is one of the worst "stats" of all time.

He received 1 vote from 1 person from the 126 voters.

I mean.

Really?

It was probably the local Washington Reporter.

I mean David Lee got a DPOTY vote in 2010. No one is going to use that to say Steph got gifted an amazing defensive player when the Warriors traded for Lee in 2011.

I love how you didn't mention Kobe as one of Shaq's team mates when he was getting swept.

What did Pau have over Jamison by 2008?

Nothing.

They were 2 guys that were considered similar-caliber players

If Kobe had gotten Jamison in 2008, everyone would've said "wow, Kobe was gifted Jamison".. It just happened to be Pau...

And maybe it's true that Kobe needed a big man and couldn't win with another wing guy like Jordan did... We'll never know, but we do know that Jamison was close to Pau in 2008, at a minimum..

Regardless, we don't need Jamison to make the case that Kobe won with 2nd options that were worse than Lebron's 3rd options (Bosh, Love)...Bosh and Love destroy Pau.

It's funny because Wade said that "Kobe was gifted Pau, so we had to do something"... Okay, so why not team up with JUST Bosh, so that you're matching Pau???.. Why do the overkill and team up with essentially Kobe himself (Wade/Lebron)??.. It was blatant deck-stackage and the Wade/Lebron duo is the first time that the top 2 producers in the league teamed up, aka Jokic/SGA, Magic/Bird, etc.

Ultimately, people don't realize that Lebron had an unprecedented advantage for 6 years from 11' to 16' before KD got one for 3 (17' to 19').. No one had a problem with Lebron hand-picking 6 straight preseason favorites, but suddenly it's a problem when Durant starts doing it.. And of course his skillset is superior/fits with everyone, so he produces a perennial favorite while Lebron's weaker chemistry produces perennial underdogs with every cast.

Yeah because Dell Harris had Kobe coming off the bench with almost no minutes

But we don't need the baby Kobe years to know that Shaq was a big loser and underachiever of rosters, just like Lebron.. Lebron is a little worse though (underachieves rosters more)

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Thread Cliffs

Anyone that thinks Lebron needed to leave Cleveland is saying that he needs to team up with an opposing 1st option franchise player and can't win with the typical homegrown, career 2nd option like Klay, Middleton, Hughes, Pippen, Zydrunas, Jamison, Mo, etc..

The 2006-2010 Cavs had better scorers than Pippen and greater defensive help/rankings than the 1st three-peat Bulls - their superior defensive ranking was due to bevies of great defensive players, while Lebron wasn't recognized as a good defender until 09'.

It's simply an objective fact that Lebron had more help on both sides of the ball than the 1st three-peat Bulls.. The talent was there, but Lebron still bolted out of shame from getting upset twice, including an infamous meltdown in 10'.

1998 Kobe shot 36% from the field. Remember those airballs?

And I guess you forgot about 1999 when Kobe started, played the most minutes, took the most shots. Shot sub-45%, had double the amount of turnovers than any of his teammates... and got swept.

But we know you have selective memory.

Congrats Shai on doing something MJ and Kobe never did. Shai is at almost Kobe's best run and Jordan's best run combined.

Anyway he's clearly better than Kobe after 8 seasons. 1 MVP (+1 in 1 month). A chip where he was the best player (favourite to do it again this year).

Kobe had 1 3rd place finish in the MVP at that stage (doesn't have a better than 3rd finish in his first 11 seasons). Zero chips as the best player.

It's pretty open and closed.

Lebron made his comeback and cratered Doncic and Reaves so hard tonight.

Poor guys only had 81 points combined, can't even match Bam.

SGA is definitely above Kobe all time. So will about 8 other active players.

Think about how great Kobe was in 1997 when the self-proclaimed "MDE" (most dominant ever, aka prime Shaq) along with Van Exel (known as a clutch assassin), and 2-way boss Eddie Jones - these proud veterans looked to a rookie 18-year old FOUR FREAKING TIMES when all the money was on the line...

FOUR TIMES.... at 18 years of age.... Let that sink in .. Kobe is the goat 18 year old..

Meanwhile, Lebron was lottery at 18 and considered a choker for nearly another decade before Wade (kobe-light) showed him how to keep a steady hand when it mattered.. Heck, nearly a decade into Lebron's career (2011), he still wasn't trusted to be the 1st option or closer over Wade in the playoffs... So Shaq trusted an 18-year old, while Wade was like "Nah, prime lebron ain't quite ready"...

And the reality is that Lebron never learned to be clutch because he averaged 16 on 39% for the first 3 games of the 13' Finals, and only 23 on 43% thru 6, so it was a 2011-style choking all over again until Ray Allen saved the day.. Regardless, the Heat didn't win with Lebron on the floor in that series, aka fake FMVP (zero plus-minus and negative net rating).

Shai is what Kobe would be like if Kobe ONLY dominated the ball with a live dribble... So if Kobe never scored off screens, off a drop-step, or in the post or triple-threat position.

Shai gets away with his limited skillset because today's beginner format (hands-off, spaced out, empty paint) is actually designed for everyone to play that way - it's optimized for ballhandlers/live-dribblers...

People call it "position-less" basketball but as Shawn Marion recently explained - it's really just everyone employing a primary ballhandler skillset where the individual positions actually need to be brought back to better diversify individual skillsets, team offense and have better fits on the court.

For example, Luka would fit like a glove with Lebron if Lebron could ACTUALLY play like AD or Karl Malone - a real big - but he can't because of the emphasis on ball-dominance that he's had for his entire career.. So the reduction of the AD/Karl Malone/Duncan skillset in today's NBA has hurt fits, chemistry, brand of ball and team ceilings.. It's one of the reasons that today's teams have weaker chemistry and are therefore inferior to teams from prior eras

So Kobe hogged the ball and missed. Welcome to the world of Kobe.

Dude averaged 10oog in that series @ 36%. lol GOAT.

And I guess you ignore the 1998 part of the post....