GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Yeah anybody who was actually here on two plus two every day in theadzilla knows what I am talking about. We watched every game in this era. Season after season. I was voted TZ (the NBA thread here) MVP a few times, it was a really thing that thread. Once he got into his early 20's, Lebron used to eat up Kobe. It was a true passing of the guard moment, Kobe was the best in the NBA at one time as Lebron matured in the NBA...then one day they played, Lebron killed him. Like a dad and his son, that one day every dad knows when his son can beat him one on one. And then Lebron was the best in the game for the next 15 years or so.
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Thread Cliffs
In addition to spacing strategy to open the paint and automatic penetration (hands-off rules), today's game has zero starting SG's that are 6'7' and almost no 6'6" SG's, while the 90's had DOZENS of 6'7" SG's that started in any given year.
Ultimately, 4 of the 5 positions in today's game are shorter than they've ever been, so MJ would face shrimps in today's game and no length compared to what he faced in the 90's, in addition to rules designed to optimize his position.
This is why virtually EVERYONE - including Jordan's biggest detractors like Rich Paul and Nick Wright - concede that Jordan would average 40 for various seasons in today's game.. This would make him the goat.
Yeah the height difference explains why Jordan can't get his head over the rim like Lebron did. Nothing to be ashamed about. They both are great athletes, just one is way bigger.
Btw, there's zero video of Lebron "getting his head OVER the rim"
You're just lying about that - there's only video of him getting the tippitty top of his head even with the rim once you break the angle down.
This is the same as the Jordan alley-oop - he appears to be nose-level with the rim but it's probably the top of his head just like Lebron...
The difference is that Jordan is 3 inches shorter, so his rim-level capability means that he's jumping higher than Lebron... Furthermore, Jordan's lesser weight means that he doesn't need a massive running start like Lebron, who surely never JOGGED to the ft line and then double-pumped...
All of these things show Jordans superiority... Heck, his 88' dunk from the ft line was c*cked all the way back - again, Lebron never did this.. And of course he basically jumps like a white guy off 2 legs, while MJ is goat level of 1 or 2 legs.
Thread cliffs, anatta played the game and watched the games the first was at like age 8 it was Hondo's last game on Sunday on CBS. We had 3 channels and one game a week and we liked it. then he watched Showtime vs Larry, he saw MJ, he saw Lebron vs Kobe, he was threadzilla MVP and others were just eatin Vegemite sandwiches (idk for some reason I think he's Australian, maybe I made that up lol)
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Stats at 22 years old vs Spurs
01' KOBE............ 33/7/7 on 53%
07' LEBRON....... 22/7/7 on 35% (6 TO's)
The respective highlights show that Kobe was already goat-level and unbelievable against the Spurs in 01', 02', and 08', while Lebron was a bricklaying "beginner jumper" DISASTER against the 07' Spurs... Kobe was also better against the 08' or 10' Celtics, or 11' Mavs...
Since Kobe was better against everyone, he's better.. He's also better because he won with a 2nd option (Pau) that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options (Love, Bosh, Jamison)..
Kobe could win with less because he had expert jumpshooting skill and could dominate while playing off-ball - this allowed better ball movement, team offense and chemistry, thereby needing less talent.
stats at 22 vs the spurs. What was his onbase % vs lefties at night with runners in scoring position? I saw them play. Lebron made Kobe look like a little kid. Like when he shook MJ's hand.
stats at 22 vs the spurs. What was his onbase % vs lefties at night with runners in scoring position? I saw them play. Lebron made Kobe look like a little kid. Like when he shook MJ's hand.
Welcome to FG.
lol. Imagine using Kobe vs LeBron head to head as a way of trying to promote Kobe...
Kobe lost to everyone during the Smush Parker years, but the point was that Kobe destroyed Lebron in 1-on-1 matchups during those games - it's on video and it's embarrassing...
There's a zillion plays where Kobe is literally destroying Lebron on offense or defense, and almost no video of vice versa.. Kobe simply dominated Lebron on possessions where they were matched up - this is common knowledge and objective fact
In addition to destroying Lebron in 1-on-1 situations, Kobe outplayed Lebron against the same opponent in the 08', 10', and 11' Playoffs, while also outplaying Lebron at 22 vs Spurs (33 on 53% versus to 22 on 35%).. Finally, Kobe won with a 2nd option that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options (Love, Bosh, Jamison).
These things make Kobe objectively better than Lebron (winning with less, destroying bron in 1-on-1 situations, and outplaying Lebron vs the same opponents)
These fools are going to make me post gifs of kobe completely DESTROYING and OWNING lebron in 1-on-1 situations, smh.
Ultimately, Kobe won with less, destroyed bron in 1-on-1 situations, and outplayed Lebron vs the same opponents
stats at 22 vs the spurs. What was his onbase % vs lefties at night with runners in scoring position? I saw them play. Lebron made Kobe look like a little kid. Like when he shook MJ's hand.
Lebron looked like a baby at the top 75, while MJ was the king that struck fear and reverance in everyone..
MJ and Kobe are feared, while Lebron gets laughed at, punked, and disrespected regularly - no one fears Lebron.
You or I could blow in Lebron's ear like Lance Stephenson did and Jason Barea... Anyone can punk Lebron because he's known as a soft flopper with low pain tolerance and scared to fight, and also prone to fumbling in clutch-time.
Ultimately, I'd rather have my favorite player destroy the Spurs for 33 ppg instead of getting historically locked up with 22 on 35% and 6 TO's.
Your argument is essentially "okay kobe played better than lebron against the Spurs, Celtics and Mavs, but Lebron looked bigger when they shook hands, so that makes me prefer Lebron"...
In addition to being weak, the "b-b-but he's bigger" argument loses because Lebron is universally-viewed as soft, never feared, and routinely disrespected by bums like Dillon Brooks, Lance Stephenson, Jason Barea, and even Delonte West is Lebron's daddy... Lmao... So you're wrong on every level - Lebron is a soft bum that had historic meltdowns and chokes, while getting routinely punked.. Meanwhile, MJ or Kobe were respected and even feared (aka "assassins").
mj and lebron have mutual respect and it showed in that video, Lebron saying, "we have all filled oceans with our tears". And MJ replied, "well said. this transmigration has no known beginning. … It’s not easy to find a sentient being who in all this long time has not previously been your mother, your father, your brother or sister.
Why is that? This transmigration has no known beginning. … This is quite enough for you to become disillusioned, dispassionate, and freed regarding all conditions.”
Kobe used to destroy Lebron in 1-on-1 matchups during games - Kobe literally bullied him like a kid - this is all over YouTubeObviously, since Lebron gets toyed with by Kobe, imagine what MJ would do.Also, a 6'6" Iguodala locked up Lebron in the 15' Finals to under 40% shooting - Lebron looked like a bumbling idiot.. Tons if guys locked up Lebron because he has DOZENS of series
Look at the Cavs 15 roster for game 2-6. I mean you can't win 1v5 well Lebron did win 2 and that GS team goes 6-0 vs Jordan's finals opponents.
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Klay was a much lower producer than Hornacek across the board:
Regular Seasonhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html'.... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 tsBasketball-Reference.comJeff Hornacek Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.comhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html............... 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 tsBasketball-Reference.comKlay Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Playoffshttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html'.... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 tsBasketball-Reference.comJeff Hornacek Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.comhttps://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html............... 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 tsBasketball-Reference.comKlay Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com
Look at the Cavs 15 roster for game 2-6. I mean you can't win 1v5 well Lebron did win 2 and that GS team goes 6-0 vs Jordan's finals opponents.
Klay produced less than 09' Mo:
09' MO......... 2.3 BPM... 0.165 WS/48... 3.1 VORP... 17.2 PER
16' KLAY....... 1.8 BPM... 0.144 WS/48... 2.5 VORP... 18.6 PER.
^^^^ Lebron carried Mo to 66 wins, and then Curry carried a LOWER PRODUCER to 73 wins.
Accordingly, Curry's Warriors were a 1-man team.
Unfortunately, Curry doesn't get credit for "carrying" like Lebron did because the term "73-win team" implies "stacked"... This robs Curry of the carry-job... People shouldn't use the term without specifying that Curry carried the team to that record (with a lower-producing sidekick than 09' Mo).
Accordingly, Lebron's veteran super-team and preseason favorite beat a 1-man team in 2016.. Meanwhile, KD joined a 1-man team that was led by the only unanimous MVP in history.
Curry, Duncan and Kobe are better than Lebron because their skillsets produce greater chemistry so they can win with less talent, such as career 2nd options at sidekick instead of the 1st options and franchise players that Lebron's weaker chemistry requires.. Lebron simply produces the weakest chemistry and teams of any top 15 candidate.
Lol I win the argument
FG - Would you rather have Klay Thompson or Mo Williams or Horny over a 5 year period on your team?
Kobe lost to everyone during the Smush Parker years, but the point was that Kobe destroyed Lebron in 1-on-1 matchups during those games - it's on video and it's embarrassing... There's a zillion plays where Kobe is literally destroying Lebron on offense or defense, and almost no video of vice versa.. Kobe simply dominated Lebron on possessions where they were matched up - this
Kobe shooting 42% from the field and 32% from 3s against LeBron was flat out inefficient as usual. But... you know... couple of plays he scored makes him amazing.
I guess LeBron will just have to take winning at a 60 wins a season pace (i.e. elite). Vs Kobe at 22 wins (e.g. worst team in the league win rate).
Or are you reconsidering if winning is important? I guess it's only important when it works for you yah?
Imagine thinking Kobe was better than LeBron. LeBron was better at ever aspect of basketball other than free throw shooting. It's just laughable.
It's the most basic question to ask a basketball fan to see if they understand basketball.
"Who's better, Kobe or LeBron?". If they answer Kobe, there's no point having any intellectual discussion with them about basketball. They don't know anything. But at least you know.
WILT
ADEBAYO
FG - Would you rather have Klay Thompson or Mo Williams or Horny over a 5 year period on your team?
Horny and it isn't remotely close.
And I just put Pippen back in the top 75.. I had him around 135 where all his production rate stats have him, but now we can see that ERA MATTERS - pippen leapfrogs nearly all players in this era (WWE era), which would make him top 75.
Btw, 2nd options like Pippen don't impact brand of ball and chemistry like the 1st option... Accordingly, 2nd options are statistical robots and you can normally compare their stats directly without considering brand of ball, chemistry or teammate elevation... This remains true, but now we have to at least consider ERA, so we can avoid the WWE era (today's game)
Kobe shooting 42% from the field and 32% from 3s against LeBron was flat out inefficient as usual. But... you know... couple of plays he scored makes him amazing.I guess LeBron will just have to take winning at a 60 wins a season pace (i.e. elite). Vs Kobe at 22 wins (e.g. worst team in the league win rate).Or are you reconsidering if winning is important? I guess it's only imp
Imagine a game that's set up to get 1 guy stats with zero care about winning - that's lebron - his style is to get stats but produce sh*t teams.. He isn't capable of being held to Kobe's winning standard because his stats would be horrible if he was forced to play winning basketball.
So who cares about Lebron's stats because it's losing basketball - his stats turn sure-fire DYNASTY rosters into 54 win teams that lose by record amount and are perennial underdogs..
His stats produce weak teams that drastically underachieves roster expectation, so who cares about his stats... Look at how his stats destroy teammates like Luka and Reaves, yet you're still citing his cancerous stats
In short, Lebron is nothing compared to Kobe except a perennial loser that can't produce perennial favorites or great teams regardless of cast.. if Lebron can't produce great teams regardless of cast, then he's objectively inferior to Kobe
When did Lebron win with a career 2nd option like Klay, Pippen or Parker?
Lebron needs 1st options at sidekick and can't win with the crap that Klay or Mo provide..
He lost as a -700 favorite with 18 on 38% from Mo, which is the kind of crap that Klay provides... Curry and MJ beat top teams with this crap all the time, while Lebron NEVER did.. He never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick.
The issue is that excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, so Lebron can't carry the scoring load vs top teams - this means that he can't win with secondary producers like Klay or Pippen that need the 1st option to carry the scoring load.... This is statistical fact, so that's how we know that Lebron can't win with Klay - Lebron's brand of ball simply needs WAY more scoring help.
^^^^ this is all statistical fact - it's been PROVEN to you that Lebron can't win with 2nd options and needs 1st options to play sidekick, yet you will continue to ignore the facts, because you fell for a fraud and are a fraud victim.. tbh, it's gotta be pretty demoralizing for you to get proven wrong TIME and TIME again.. lol
