GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Just for Clarity. If Shaq completed the dunk from where LeBron did I would classify it as more impressive than LeBron's Dunk.
BuT He'S 3 IncHeS TalLer. AnD WaYs 50 PoUnDs MoRe. DoEsNT MeAn ItS MoRe ImPrEsSiVe!
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F'ing INSANE
Just for Clarity. If Shaq completed the dunk from where LeBron did I would classify it as more impressive than LeBron's Dunk.
BuT He'S 3 IncHeS TalLer. AnD WaYs 50 PoUnDs MoRe. DoEsNT MeAn ItS MoRe ImPrEsSiVe!
Ibaka took off from further ON CALL in a contest, and the contest format lets us know that he can do it every time, aka easily.. This is more impressive than Lebron's one-off from several inches closer.
Secondly, Lebron weighed no more than 230 when he entered the league - the reason that I believe this is because he's still listed at only 250 and he's obviously much bigger than rookie Lebron... Accordingly, he was probably 240 or so when he did that dunk, which isn't that nonstandard and comparable to someone like say, Pippen or Kemp.. Regardless, MJ's elbow dunks or the jogging, double-pump dunk are clearly more impressive and likely the goat standard (shown with good quality above).
Btw Giannis took off from ft line in a game and it wasn't more impressive than when a 6'6" guy did it (shown here)
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A microcosm of the MJ-Pip dynamic:
Phil's reaction says it all..
There are tons of videos like this
Fallguy thinking about Fatburger after the club closes tonight.
This is pathetic. This is 14 years in the nba for jordan. Look at the most intense D jordan likely faced, NBA finals, late in his era. Look at the guys out there. Midgets. All walking the ball up. Everybody catching the ball in their spot. Sagging off, daring to shoot.
Now watch this regular season game. Granted these are the highlights. Most every shot is going in...
Broken YouTube LinkTrash league compared to today. MJ wouldn’t be top 25 in the current league.
JC
@PointGuardLife8
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4h
The game is so much more advanced now it’s not even funny. Really no point in rven comparing yhrsr eras. Not the same sport
Capt. Sum Ting Wong
@johnnywonney
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4h
Look at this defense. Limited help. No zones. Centers can post up low and just wait for their offense to set. Jokic might average 20 assists. Curry averages 30 off flare screens alone in this era. LeBron facing no zone gets a running start to the rim every possession.
Isaiah Huston
@isaiahhuston7
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5h
Karl Malone just straight up passed MJ the ball on their first possession ��
LRmagic
@44mag_glock
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5h
Not 1 3pt shot chucked! No way in today’s era a game goes 3 minutes without a chucked 3.
The King of LA ��
@theKing0fLA
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4h
Amazing ball movement and sets??? Bro 50 year-olds play basketball like this today lmao
AJ Slu
@aj_slusarczyk
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4h
“Used to be” man yall just never liked basketball keep your mouths shut
Blaine
@BlainGrey
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5h
Look at that TRASH defense right before our eyes. Yet I'm supposed to believe Michael Jordan would put up 40 ppg today ��
He was getting 5 feet of space at the 3pt line.
��Joe�� Aka Trouble
@jcsIII7980
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5h
Back when basketball was played with a purpose and players knew their role.
James Price
@DetJPiG
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5h
Is the video in slow motion?
2020Hangover
@2020Hangover
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5h
Look at the how much space they give you to shoot - today everyone can shoot threes if you let them. This kinda defense today would get you in the G League
ankles390
@ankles390
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4h
Literally might be the worst 3 min stretch of hoops I’ve watched… 90s hoops was ****ing soft as baby ****�� they’re terrible
Tide Trends
@TideTrends
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4h
So much of this is outthinking your opponent rather than out hustling, kinda cool
jeJaye����
@iamjj1411743
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5h
Luka is avg 35 if this is how a finals game is paced in that era
Jake Buchsbaum
@buchsbaum_86677
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2h
The Jazz run the same play every possession. Stockton dribbles around and hunts a Karl Malone post up. It's no wonder the Bulls snatched the game away from them
Adam O
@adam_o89
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2h
Snails pace, feed the post, several turnovers, bricking elbow jumpers, a couple of nice back door cuts, other than that this is awful�� art my ass
I am... Batman!
@MikeMummy40
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1h
The inside out game like this doesn't exist anymore. Bigs play like guards and the inside out spread of defense is null and void now. The north to south spread of defense is non existence now.
Mr. V's Chemistry
@MrVanOosterhout
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29m
Ah yes, the intricate ballet-plus-chess-match of “dribble down to the corner and pass to Malone in the post.”
Sammy
@RapsGuy123
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1h
this needs to be posted every other week... not because what you're trying to "prove" but to show us how awful that plumber league was
Yael
@Yael70739835
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35m
I just wish yall would realize you don’t like sports. You like nostalgia and stories. Thats fine, but there’s plenty of that available without trying to ruin things for people who are capable of enjoying the present.
cooper duren
@cooperdueren
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3h
LeBron is dropping 40 per game minmum if he doesn’t pass 60. No on ball pressure, no zone and defenders and sticks
Keith Jackson
@KeithJa21510949
·
3h
Im sorry but there are so many reasons as to why many of us say the evolution of the game is at its best right now and this literally proves our point....
Onur Adıgüzel
@onurradgzl
·
4h
Hahah is this the golden era of basketball ? That you love. 😀 Todays average scorers would be superstars those days. And then you say LBJ could not survive. He probably goes 50 every single night just with dunks 😀
Luke Karcher
@LukeKarcher
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2h
If you think the “ball movement” and “sets” is better in this clip than current day NBA you’re out of your goddamn mind
Hopeful Magic Fan
@WWyconn
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3h
No wonder MJ averaged 4 steals these guys can barely handle the ball ��
Unedited first several comments. My faith in young people has been restored!
I think it really comes down to physics. Jordan was either too big and strong for his defenders or too quick. Every single guy he has a physical mismatch. Add elite athleticism and skill, you get a GOAT, which he was at the time.
Guess what, coaches see that and after 4 decades or so, they find guys that can matchup with the Jordan build. But along comes another guy who again against every single other guy, he has a physical mismatch. He is way too big and strong or way too fast (and strong). So, you get a GOAT at this time. This time has evolved from that time
or in others words...
The GOAT term is something I’ll never get high or low about. It just doesn’t exist for me.. We paved the way for Kobe and LeBron. The beauty of he game of basketball is a player after previous players have evolved the game further.
The first quote was me. 2nd...Michael Jordan
That Jazz-Bulls finals video is trending btw like listed in the right column on X and reposted by like 4 others in my timeline, all with the same on top response and same comments. Everybody is just dumbfounded about how we are having this debate when basketball was so terrible back then.
Yeah, every year MJ looks worse and worse. Washington Wizards have better ball movement than those Bulls.
League was set up for MJ to succeed. It was "good for business". It was common knowledge.
Even Phil Jackson used to tell the refs.
Jordan's dunks look about the same as LeBron for distance. Probably shorter.
Maybe my memory is bad, but I don't even remember the Ibaka dunk?
Because I know you can't do math the elbow is about 1 foot further from the basket than the straight in front.
a² + b² = c²...I don't think he went as far...Lebron also lands waaay out of bounds...regardless...all the dunks, where is one where jordan's head over rim? not saying it's not somewhere but a clear video should be available, but I asked AI and didn't get a good answer...like there is a debate about this too. This whole goat thing is really a strange obsessive thing. two more days and I am taking a break again! I really watch myself with this **** lol.
MJ is the only player in history with video of him getting his head at the rim off 1 and 2 legs, shown below:
2 LEGS
1 LEG
^^^^ It's common knowledge that MJ is the greatest combo leaper (1 or 2 legs) of all-time.
Here's a video about it:
League was set up for MJ to succeed. It was "good for business". It was common knowledge.
Even Phil Jackson used to tell the refs.
2010 Lebron.... #1 PER... #1 BPM... #1 WS/48... #1 VORP
2010 Wade....... #2 PER... #2 BPM... #2 WS/48... #2 VORP
^^^^ Lebron teamed up with the next-best player in the game..
Accordingly, if the league was set up for MJ, he would've teamed up with the next-best player in the league (Bird) like Lebron did with Wade..
But instead, Jordan won with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player, while Lebron needed "super-teams" of 3 franchise players, and still mostly lost.
No one in history got to team up MULTIPLE TIMES with 2 opposing franchise players from other teams (and 2 top 15 guys itl)..
No one in history had 7 preseason favorites, except Lebron, which includes 6 in a row from 11' to 16' (the previous record for consecutive preseason favorites was 3).. Lebron was babied with preseason favorites and super-teams, while MJ had to build single-digit rookies and win with a team of cheap defenders.
a² + b² = c²...I don't think he went as far...Lebron also lands waaay out of bounds...regardless...all the dunks, where is one where jordan's head over rim? not saying it's not somewhere but a clear video should be available, but I asked AI and didn't get a good answer...like there is a debate about this too. This whole goat thing is really a strange obsessive thing. two mor
Your head-at-the-rim naivety was exposed a few posts ago, so that invalidates everything else you said.
And obviously, it means nothing to reference a comment section that's full of Lebron fans and pretend like it's proof of anything..
There's simply no sense in debating common knowledge and bball 101 that it's easier to score WITH spacing (today's game), then WITHOUT spacing (prior eras)... This is bball 101.
Ultimately, every player and coach knows that spacing strategy (threes) opens up the lane and makes it easier to score... In addition to the spacing and open lanes, automatic penetration is built into the game via the hands-off and no impede rules - the ballhandler is allowed to go wherever he wants unfettered.. Finally, defenders are forced to vacate the paint due to defensive 3 seconds..
Essentially, the game has been optimized for ballhandlers and ANY on-ball player (whoever has the ball) because there will be great spacing, an open paint, and a hands-off, unimpeded path to the rim.. Luka, Jokic and Giannis claim that this format is a complete joke and it's much harder to score in EUROLEAGUE, let alone prior eras in the NBA
Even Rich Paul and Nick Wright concede that Jordan would average 40 for a few seasons in today's game!!
40 ppg would be goat, since the next guy would be at 32, so that's an 8 point gap in today's game just like he had in 1987 when he averaged 37... Carry on .. He would be the same force of nature today that he was in 87'.
camera angles aside (odd that you think I wouldn't notice? you know that those don't definitively show his head over the rim)...the oop video appears not over. The b&w photo...not really at all convincing. looks under rim if anything imo. Odd one would think with all those dunks there'd be one clearly showing his head over it like Lebron blowing away the all-stars with his slam...unless...hmm.
I guess AI was right, there aren't any that show it, just camera angles.
There are no verified photos or videos showing Michael Jordan with his head clearly above the rim, as the famous "48-inch vertical" is generally considered a myth. While ground-level shots and camera angles often make it appear his head is at rim level, his head did not actually clear the 10-foot rim.
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Evidence Analysis: Analysis suggests that at 6'6", a 42-inch vertical would bring Jordan's head to rim level, but not above it. While he consistently achieved incredible height, photographic evidence showing his head definitively higher than the rim is typically attributed to perspective tricks.
Vertical Measurements: Although some sources claim a 48-inch vertical, university-conducted studies from 1983 measured his max vertical at approximately 45.76 inches.
Comparisons: Unlike players such as Gerald Green or LeBron James, who have footage clearly showing their heads above the rim, no such definitive footage exists for Jordan.
"Head on Backboard" Myth: While there are clips of Jordan hitting his head on the backboard on high-effort jumps, these are not directly over the center of the rim.
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Therefore, the iconic images of Jordan at the rim are likely the result of camera angles rather than his head physically clearing the 10-foot mark.
It kind of makes sense. Looks like at least four inches difference, the hand shake at end of video, MJ looks like a little kid. I watched a game vs Kobe where Lebron was on him for the last minute of game. Just totally engulfed him. Real little kid vibe. I suspect that is the case here... Anywho, so a 7 footer needs 36in to put head on rim. Lebron probably only needs a 40 in leap in shoes to put his head clearly over. A lot of guys have that, but 44in officially measured?...like five guys ever at nba combine. If Jordan Lebron height difference a bit more than 4in, now you are talking one or two guys ever measured.
camera angles aside (odd that you think I wouldn't notice? you know that those don't definitively show his head over the rim)...the oop video appears not over. The b&w photo...not really at all convincing. looks under rim if anything imo. Odd one would think with all those dunks there'd be one clearly showing his head over it like Lebron blowing away the all-stars with his s
The angles are definitive - Jordan is nose-level on the alley-oop, while his FT line dunk in the 88' contest has angles showing his head at rim-level or higher, along with the other contest dunk shown in the pic above.
There are also other rim-level pics and footage but this isn't worth debating since I already showed MJ was the goat combo leaper.
Ultimately, Jordan had a better vertical and 40-yard dash (FAR quicker) than Lebron
It kind of makes sense. Looks like at least four inches difference, the hand shake at end of video, MJ looks like a little kid. I watched a game vs Kobe where Lebron was on him for the last minute of game. Just totally engulfed him. Real little kid vibe. I suspect that is the case here... Anywho, so a 7 footer needs 36in to put head on rim. Lebron probably only needs a 4
Kobe used to destroy Lebron in 1-on-1 matchups during games - Kobe literally bullied him like a kid - this is all over YouTube
Obviously, since Lebron gets toyed with by Kobe, imagine what MJ would do.
Also, a 6'6" Iguodala locked up Lebron in the 15' Finals to under 40% shooting - Lebron looked like a bumbling idiot.. Tons if guys locked up Lebron because he has DOZENS of series under 26 ppg - nearly every series tbh
No one in history shot 35% with 6 TO's per game, except Lebron in the 07' Finals and 08' ECSF... It's the worst combination of chucking and turnovers that the game has ever seen... Then he was locked up in the 16' 1st Round, 14' ECF, 11' Finals, 10' ECSF, 21' 1st Round and many more
Yeah the height difference explains why Jordan can't get his head over the rim like Lebron did. Nothing to be ashamed about. They both are great athletes, just one is way bigger.
