Do we c bet 77’s mw?
1/3 8 handed.
I have 400. The other stacks range from 200-900.
EP limps, I raise in LJ with 7s7c to 15, the CO, Button, BB, and EP all call.
The pot it 75
8s5s2c…It’s checked to me. Do I c bet? How much. The table is mostly loose passive with a couple Tags.
9 Replies
Check. Vs have all the sets. Try to get to showdown cheap.
Raise more pre. Or is multiway uncommon? You want to bluff 77 heads up.
I think that Adonson's right that we should be checking, at least in theory.
In practice against relatively straightforward players who will play fit or fold postflop and are loose passive preflop, I will often make a very small $10-$15 bet with the pair plus backdoor draws.
Mainly you're just hoping to fold out unpaired overcards. Then you can play for showdown. Or occasionally you can turn your hand into a bluff on later streets with the backdoor straight and flush draws. It can get marginal fast though.
The standard bet is probably 15, often is in my games, but playing this hand demands a bigger bet pre-flop. You don’t want those calls behind you and this sets you up to bluff later. You don’t want to have to depend on hitting a set. 25-30 maybe more as you just want one caller and don’t really mind if everyone folds.
As played, this is a good flop for you, but with 3 players you can’t count on them all having paint. You’re not going to fold better hands, so I think checks good.
It would be such a different situation if you bet 30 and got one caller. Now it’s more likely they missed and you can bluff.
Grunch:
PRE - I'd raise bigger over an EP limp. Make it at least $20. Might go $25 if the game is splashy. They don't limp from EP to fold to a 5BB raise. We want to fold out the players behind us, and either get this heads up and IP, or at least get to act last post-flop.
FLOP - with two opponents behind us and a fairly wet and dynamic board, I'd usually just check here, to see if one of them stabs at it, and for what size. If action checks through and it checks to us again on the turn, then I'd consider making a delayed c-bet, depending on the turn card.
Alternatively, we could c-bet for a small size, like 1/3 pot or slightly less. Our hand has some SDV and we've got a couple backdoor draws, but it's vulnerable, so we could c-bet to clean up some equity. If we get called and don't improve or pick up equity on the turn, I'd probably check and hope to get to showdown.
Part of the problem with opening for a small size in this game is that we're likely to go to the flop multi-way. If we don't flop a set, we're likely to have just enough of a piece of the board to wonder if we should check or c-bet, and neither option seems great.
We're probably not getting any better hands to fold if we c-bet small. We may not be folding out many un-paired over-cards. Almost certainly not folding out any NFD's or combo-draws. May not fold out many straight draws. And we may not fold out any lower PP's that may improve to a sneaky set on the turn.
I would just overlimp (although admittedly I also have a 0% raising range in the LJ), but that's me. At loose tables I'm not really sure what a raise accomplishes other than make it far more easier to play for stacks postflop when we hit... although we don't have to raise this much to do so, getting 3bet is a disaster, and we can also get in weird spots in bloated pots UI (where big mistakes can be made).
Part of the reason I really don't like raising this out of the LJ is that we still end up with two guys behind us. If it hadda been checked multiway to us on the Button, then I think a small bet would be fine. But with two guys behind us that haven't indicated anything yet I think we're more forced to check. Not gonna hate on a small $25 bet to protect against overs and then re-evalute from there, but meh.
ETA: FWIW, the "LJ" at an 8 handed table is UTG+2. Thoughts of raising upwards of 10x with still 5 players to react behind us, especially with some shorter 66x stacks at the table, is setting money on fire, imo.
GcluelessNLnoobG
I'm also in the over-limp camp. However, if we are raising this hand, it's to isolate loose preflop callers and attack their absurd ranges, winning most pots without showdown. So I'm assuming that's the plan here. It kinda stinks we got 4 callers but we have everything else going for us. We have initiative, some position, an uncapped range, and a pretty good board. At this point in the hand, we have the most fold equity we'll ever and face the weakest ranges we'll possibly see. There is no better time to bet. It's bet now, or give up with 7's on an 8 high board.
Announce you have TT+ by betting $60, and let everyone else react accordingly.
I think over limping at this loose table makes more sense.
What is the point where we raise our pocket pair here? 88? 99? TT? Also, I’ll raise bigger next time.
I think over limping at this loose table makes more sense.
What is the point where we raise our pocket pair here? 88? 99? TT? Also, I’ll raise bigger next time.
Probably 99, IMO.
I think you could bet $25 or so. You get called a lot but sometimes that action will be: 66 or A3 calls, then QJ or whatever folds.
