President Donald Trump
I assume it's still acceptable to have a Trump thread in a Politics forum?
So this is an obvious lie - basically aimed at
They don't have to. I am not envisioning a trust fall. I am envisioning an explicit quid pro quo. I shouldn't have used the word "implicit" in my previous post.
i see two issues with this the first is that it's impossible to really tack down who paid what - we know who paid the government the tariffs, we don't know if that was eaten, passed on to others, or some combination of bothGM, which paid 3.1 billion in tariffs is a relatively easy example to look at - yes they ate part of it, dropping their profit margin from 9% to 6% with the
The extent to which the tariffs were passed on to consumers is legally irrelevant as far as I can discern. Short of indiscriminately mailing people checks (which is highly imperfect), there is no mechanism for making consumers whole, which is one of many reasons why imposing unlawful tariffs was an idiotic idea in the first place. I guess the government can send every household a check if it chooses to do so, but that won't extinguish the liability to tariff payors.
the second you misunderstood me, i wasn't concerned about companies spending time filing for the money - you may recall i hope they don't even issue refunds at all - the concern is the government apparatus to issue the refunds it will cost us billions to refund this all - and that's if everything goes smoothly - if it becomes a big legal nightmare it could be tens of billions - a classic situation where the cost of litigation and administration is likely going to approach the actual number at stakes
there are over 300k importers that paid tariffs and millions of people who operate as drop shippers, run etsy shops, or just bought something directly from abroad that paid tariffs as well - tracking all that paperwork is not feasible, there's going to be massive fraud like when people ask for fema money each time there's a natural disaster and they get overwhelmed and send out the checks
the fear here isn't dave_t not bothering to reclaim his $30 in tariffs paid from his hentai dropshipping biz, it's him filling out that paperwork and it cost $200 to process the refund, or he just claims he paid $30,000 in tariffs and it's not a big enough number to be worth investigating so they just pay him out
I can't imagine that you will be able to get a refund simply by claiming that you paid tariffs. You will have to provide documentation. The IRS processes more than a quarter of a billion separate tax returns per year, and the annual budget of the IRS is approximately $12 billion. There is no reason for this process to be as expensive as you are describing unless the administration simply chooses to make the process burdensome purely as a matter of principle.
And you still haven't addressed the moral hazard problem.
i'm with you on the irs angle, but look at all the covid bailout and katrina fraud
perhaps your right and those are more subjective of "do they need help" whereas this is "where are your receipts" but i believe government will bungle everything given the right opportunity to do bungle it
Fair enough. You obviously have history on your side if you are betting on the Trump administration to bungle something.
I just have a visceral negative reaction to saying, "The administration did unlawful thing X because it is incompetent. And it is too incompetent to administer a remedy for unlawful thing X. So I guess we just have to live with unlawful thing X and hope that the administration doesn't do unlawful thing Y."
i'm with you on the irs angle, but look at all the covid bailout and katrina fraud
perhaps your right and those are more subjective of "do they need help" whereas this is "where are your receipts" but i believe government will bungle everything given the right opportunity to do bungle it
the government will bungle everything, including charging illegal tariffs and then not refunding them
In before it turns out that Somalis in MN paid a trillion dollars in illegal tariffs.
Fair enough. You obviously have history on your side if you are betting on the Trump administration to bungle something. I just have a visceral negative reaction to saying, "The administration did unlawful thing X because it is incompetent. And it is too incompetent to administer a remedy for unlawful thing X. So I guess we just have to live with unlawful thing X and hope t
So if I understand this correctly...
Calculations so far tell us that say that American households have paid an extra 1300$ on average in what is essentially an indirect tax (could be an old number, it is just one I remember from what seemed to be a serious article). Meaning companies pay additional tax and to not lose money, most of that cost is recouped by raising prices on goods and services sold to Americans.
However, the refund will not go to those taxed indirectly, but to those taxed directly. And presumably it will have to be footed the same way the government pays for anything - through taxes.
So, a vast amount of American consumers have effectively been taxed illegally, and to correct that a significant chunk of their tax-money will be given to someone else.
Trumponomics is neat.
So if I understand this correctly...Calculations so far tell us that say that American households have paid an extra 1300$ on average in what is essentially an indirect tax (could be an old number, it is just one I remember from what seemed to be a serious article). Meaning companies pay additional tax and to not lose money, most of that cost is recouped by raising prices on go
Like I said, the government can mail a check to people if it wants to mail a check to people. But consumers do not have a direct claim against the government for what effectively amounts to inflation caused by unlawful tariffs.
So if I understand this correctly...Calculations so far tell us that say that American households have paid an extra 1300$ on average in what is essentially an indirect tax (could be an old number, it is just one I remember from what seemed to be a serious article). Meaning companies pay additional tax and to not lose money, most of that cost is recouped by raising prices on go
Exactly. Thanks to the "lower taxes" crowd that voted for tariffs, everyone essentially pays a new tax that they don't even get credit for. It's also a gift that keeps on giving, as prices won't be coming down anytime soon (if ever).
Trump 2.0 has just been a steady series of massive wealth transfers from the plebs to the 1%.
They don't have to. I am not envisioning a trust fall. I am envisioning an explicit quid pro quo. I shouldn't have used the word "implicit" in my previous post.
Agreed. I just want to add people will want immediate benefits/relief, and not some vague push by the white house for a future result... because they know Trump will tell someone to do something and then promptly forgets about it.
Again, I understand the desire to make consumers whole, but people shouldn't assume these tariffs were some sort of boon for importers, even if they eventually get full or partial refunds. Most companies cannot pass along 100% of tariff costs to customers. Margins usually are affected to some degree. And more importantly, profits are squeezed because demand obviously is elastic for a lot of imported goods.
Agreed. I just want to add people will want immediate benefits/relief, and not some vague push by the white house for a future result... because they know Trump will tell someone to do something and then promptly forgets about it.
Agreed. Trump's promises don't mean much. But he is highly transactional, which means explicit quid pro quos are likely to be on the menu.
Trump 2.0 has just been a steady series of massive wealth transfers from the plebs to the 1%.
I don't think this is true. It's a steady series of massive wealth destruction. The 1% has just been better positioned to absorb the hits with least amount of damage.
nVidia and CostCo for example would have rather just gone on their business as usual instead of having to deal with all this uncertainty.
FWIW, I don't think promoting wealth transfer in either direction is a priority for Trump. He cares immensely about transferring wealth to himself and a small cadre of cronies, and his policies almost certainly hurt poor people more than wealthy people. But systemic transfers of wealth caused by his policies are mostly incidental.
FWIW, I don't think promoting wealth transfer in either direction is a priority for Trump. He cares immensely about transferring wealth to himself and a small cadre of cronies, and his policies almost certainly hurt poor people more than wealthy people. But systemic transfers of wealth caused by his policies are mostly incidental.
Yeah, I'm not claiming this is some strategic 4d chess from Trump. The guy is just bleeding anything he can to accrue personal wealth and the small club of elites are riding the wave.
The who or why doesn't matter, the wealth extraction from the lower class is simply the end result (intended or otherwise).
Yeah, I'm not claiming this is some strategic 4d chess from Trump. The guy is just bleeding anything he can to accrue personal wealth and the small club of elites are riding the wave.
The who or why doesn't matter, the wealth extraction from the lower class is simply the end result (intended or otherwise).
Exactly. I just don't get a sense of class allegiance from Trump. Someone like Romney probably thinks in his heart of hearts that the world runs best when well-intentioned rich people are in charge, and that plays out for him as a form of class allegiance. Trump is more crass. He thinks that his life is best when he is in charge, and beyond that, he doesn't really care.
Donald Trump sells bibles for $70 each
Only an idiot believes this guy isn’t a conman out for every dollar he can get
It is at least satisfying to see that cryptoshitbros are down 40% on their super coin since his inauguration
DJT down 60%. Earnings report on the 26th. I may actually tune in for that one to see if trump just refuses to allow earnings to be reported or if it’s just blah blah blah fake news media!
Although I can definitely see the final solution of this being apartheid Clyde taking it private for idk $10 billion with help from the saudis
It is at least satisfying to see that cryptoshitbros are down 40% on their super coin since his inauguration
Single issue voters getting what they deserve.
FWIW, I don't think promoting wealth transfer in either direction is a priority for Trump. He cares immensely about transferring wealth to himself and a small cadre of cronies, and his policies almost certainly hurt poor people more than wealthy people. But systemic transfers of wealth caused by his policies are mostly incidental.
Exactly. I just don't get a sense of class allegiance from Trump. Someone like Romney probably thinks in his heart of hearts that the world runs best when well-intentioned rich people are in charge, and that plays out for him as a form of class allegiance. Trump is more crass. He thinks that his life is best when he is in charge, and beyond that, he doesn't really care.
This is a good insight. People trying to understand Trump through some lens of rich vs poor, libertarian vs socialist, etc miss the point. He doesn't have allegiance to anyone other than himself. Even the people closest to him who slurp him the hardest will get kicked the curb the second he thinks that's in his interest to do so.
This is a good insight. People trying to understand Trump through some lens of rich vs poor, libertarian vs socialist, etc miss the point. He doesn't have allegiance to anyone other than himself. Even the people closest to him who slurp him the hardest will get kicked the curb the second he thinks that's in his interest to do so.
I'm only half-joking when I suggest this, but when the Dems control Congress in 2027 they should honor and praise and salute Trump whenever possible. Trump loves and is responsive to flattery. They might get minimum wage, paid family leave and other stuff they want that way.
#onlyhalfjoking
I buy almost all my Bibles at Dollar Tree.
The Trump Bible might be a collectable someday though.
Why do you need to buy a lot of Bibles? Are you giving them away?
