Punting in honor of Dangomango
After reading this thread I thought I’d share a punt from last night.
1/2 private game.
V1: 30ish Male, first time playing with him. Earlier he 3! to 7x with QQ (Utg1) vs V2 (Utg). V2 flats with AA despite V1 already committing 1/3 of his stack. V1 b50 on Q high flop and stacks V2.
V2: Played with him a lot, has only been playing poker for about a year, so definitely a player you want to be in pots with, not strong at hand reading, maybe isn’t even thinking about opponents range, is a losing player in the game.
Hero: MAWG, winning player, been beating this game for pretty large since we’ve been coming the past few months. Other players tease him for being a nit (we don’t show our bluffs 🤷♂️), so we assume to be perceived as a tight/nitty winning player.
Previous HH vs V1.
V1 Utg straddle $5.
Hero $20 with TT from BU. V1 calls.
Flop ($43): 884. V1 x, Hero $20. Call.
Turn 3 ($83): V1 x, Hero $30. Call.
River Q ($143): V1 x, Hero flicks in one black ($100), V1 tanking. Hero says “Your 55 no good”. V1 calls with 66.
OTTH:
V2 is Utg $5 straddle. V1 7x to $35 ($~1k eff). Folded to hero in sb with AKo. Really prefer to give V2 a chance to stay in, he defends his straddles really wide, will call with many hands we dominate and is generally making big mistakes post flop, while V1 is still mostly an unknown to me. So we flat. V2 folds.
Flop ($73): 776r x/x.
Very surprised V checks back, as his raise sizing gives the impression he’s the classic “rather bet huge and get folds than get ‘sucked out on’. Still giving V TT+ but now discounting it and putting more weight on AT+
Turn ($73): Js putting out a 2 flush. Time to punt.
Hero leads $40. V raise to $135.
Not ideal. Thinking V has AJ, some AsXs (we don’t have a spade), some over pairs that decided to trap on the flop and JJ. In the moment I’m thinking with our image, we can still get the one pair hands to fold river, with the only brick wall being JJ, but we need to leave enough behind, Hero 3! To $255. V quickly calls, and Charlie Carrel saying “Quick calls are marginal showdown value” starts playing in my head. I wonder if that still pertains when the street goes b/3b lol.
River ($583): V has ~$700 eff. Kc. LOL. So V has 9 combos of AJ, 6 combos of QQ, and mayyyyyybe KQs, that we beat. And then 3 combos of JJ, 3 combos of AA and 1 combo of KK we lose to. (Feel free to include 66/77 but I didn’t believe V would be 7x these Utg)
So we punted our asses off, and then got there, maybe? Hero?
Also feel free to roast the turn, it’s all spew.
16 Replies
Dangomango, take a bow!
OP, yeah I'm not a fan of how you played it. You almost perfectly fold out all the hands you're ahead of and isolate yourself against all the hands that have you beat when you bet the turn. The Jack's not really a great card to represent either, as a lot of his flop give ups improved to top pair.
I don't know what your range looks like after flatting that big bet preflop in the SB so it's hard for me to comment on the river. I guess as played maybe bet $350 for value, and then fold if he jams? I'm assuming at a 1/2 game where you have a nitty image it might be hard for you to get paid off by worse if you jam, and I'm assuming he's never bluffing if he goes all in over the top.
lol wut??? Hand is way different than mine.
3bet pre is standard imho. AK most profits are from folds not from hitting A/K.
V seems like a fish from HH
You're trying to rep 7x?
You're oop.
V range isn't really capped, he has some 7x/77/66 slowplays on this board.
When V is this fishy and his range has to be very very strong. Imho, minimum 7x? Most fish doesn't raise AJ on turn unless he overvalues it.
I guess if you exclude all those 7x/66/77 then its fine???
*edit* actually I might check/call river since flush draws missed.
His raise/call3b quickly does seem to indicate draws than any AJ/overpairs.
Betting small might actually induce a raise as well.
But we are going to very dangerous waters if v has super nutted hands like 77/66, not sure how sure you are in your reads.
If you're positive either check/call, or bet like 100 to induce.
Agree 3! Pre would have been standard. Really didn’t want to face a 4! this deep oop, and believe it’s more profitable to let the known V2 in the straddle continue with dominated hands (I could share more HH of V2, but trust me when I say, massive mistakes post flop). Agree V1 is uncapped and it’s spewing, but I think my assigned range for him is accurate. I guess I should have mentioned V has a limping range, so I expect his 7x/77/66 to be in there and therefore not in his range as played.
Edit: even though it’s a sample of size of… literally one other hand, I think we can also discount AA/KK, of course we block it, but also with no other info I think I’m assuming V would open those 4/5x over the straddle
theyre similar in the sense that theyre both poorly played imo at least and have poor reasoning to deviate and that both of you are (extremely) defensive about your plays lol
dango was at least more open to feedback probably bc his didnt "work"
Maybe the tone is getting lost over text, I am humbly accepting any and all comments, I think I’ve mentioned at least once in every post that this was an awful punt
in this hand, 3b pre. to me it just looks like scared money as your hand sucks to play multiway oop in srp and it makes no sense to try to "trap" someone in a blind by hoping they overcall and you go multiway. if he 3bs 20% or whatever its a different story but this isn't it.
postflop play really dont make much sense to me just c/c the turn or i guess b/f
dont really see many hands you plausibly rep here or why you would try to make him fold AJ+ on this board
if i wanted to spew i would lead flop small
i didnt even notice how big the raise was the first time i looked at the hand
also find the contradiction of you blocking kk / aa postflop and because of preflop bet sizing tell but being afraid to 3b pre because you might face a 4b odd
Not much to add to this honestly. Pre is odd and post-flop in light of pre-flop is even worse. We call pre to “trap” a weaker player with AK which is not good but then we spew post-flop why?
Thread title checks out.
Can't add much that hasn't already been said. 3B pre from OOP. Just try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible with ace-king high when we whiff but we can beat some of V's worse air that he might just be monkey-c-betting.
I didn't realize this wasn't obvious to people, but when bluffing, try to choose spots where it's fairly plausible you can have a strong hand, and your opponent more likely doesn't.
Also maybe consider if your hand has any SDV before turning it into a puntastic bluff. Dango's 99 probably had enough SDV to flat call. Your AK probably has enough SDV to call.
Forgot to actually give advice. Skipping right to the river...
Don't know what to take from the read or prior hand history.
My hunch would be that if we check this, he'll check back a lot of hands we beat. Our hand is so over-repped that I'm not sure he'd call a big bet with AJ or QQ. The pot is already too big for our hand. The SPR makes block-bet-folding awkward.
I guess check, and fold if he bets big. Call if he bets small. Hope he checks back. Do the embarrased reg thing where you say, "I think I sucked out on you" when you show down.
River ($583): So maybe we’ve gotten there. I won’t rehash the combos I believe are in Vs range, but after maybe a 10 second tank, I decide to just bet/fold the most I think AJ/QQ would call, $400
Spoiler
We fade the snap jam! This is already more than I deserve after the mess I’ve made of this hand. V is tanking for several minutes. V asks if I have KJ, I’m thinking to myself “oh fuck does that mean he has AA”. I say nothing and continue staring at the felt. No point trying to table talk when I don’t even know if want a call or fold now. V now shows his hand to his neighbour, “of course you have that” the neighbour says. “Ah fuck he definitely has AA” I think to myself. Finally V puts me out of my misery and calls. “Yeah good call” I say as and embarrassingly roll over my hand. V does not look impressed. He shows QQ and mucks.
for your hand to be strong enough to value bet otr turn raise has to be an absolutely insane torch (your hand is not a valuebet)
i think the ranging and combo counting in the op is wildly off
i not really sure how to say it in a non mean way but if you play like this on a regular basis you are going to lose all of your money
Be as mean as you want, I was just trying to share a bad hand in a humorous/self deprecating way. For some reason it seems to deeply offend you lol
Be as mean as you want, I was just trying to share a bad hand in a humorous/self deprecating way. For some reason it seems to deeply offend you lol
im not really sure why you think im offended. i offered my thoughts about the hand / results.
I guess it feels that way because you don’t seem interested in having a discussion.
i think the ranging and combo counting in the op is wildly off
It would be nice if you’d expand on this, and possibly provide your range analysis.
River ($583): So maybe we've gotten there. I won't rehash the combos I believe are in Vs range, but after maybe a 10 second tank, I decide to just bet/fold the most I think AJ/QQ would call, $400
Wait....you bet $400, and you were going to fold for another $300?
I just sat here for the better part of a minute trying to make enough sense of it that I could find something to say, and...I can't.
Why would we call off? The price is irrelevant if we’re never good
