GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
LeBron with a lazy 28/12/10 on 50% shooting.
MJ only had 3 games with those numbers or better. They were all in his 20s.
LeBron with a lazy 28/12/10 on 50% shooting.
MJ only had 3 games with those numbers or better. They were all in his 20s.
It's statistical fact that the Lakers' defense craters when Lebron is on the floor, but if Lebron was forced to exert enough energy to break-even defensively, while also playing 82 games instead of resting against the better comp, he would average around 10 ppg..
This is how we know that MJ was amazing for averaging 20 ppg, since it was over 82 games (no resting) and he was a break-even defender... Essentially, Lebron's 23 ppg is really like 10 ppg when we consider the load management and playing 1 side of the floor, while MJ's 20 ppg was legit because he played every game and played viable defense
Okay so the idea is that Jordan had the perfect situation, but what about Duncan, Curry, and Kobe??... They all won more than Lebron too... When these guys got help, they produced goat dynasties and perennial favorites, while Lebron barely wins 50 games with the preseason favorite, thereby falling to perennial underdog.. The roster talent is initially favored (preseason favorite), so the fall to underdog is due to inferior chemistry, aka bron-ball.
Is there a way of banning myself just from one thread so I'm not even tempted to open it again?
Is there a way of banning myself just from one thread so I'm not even tempted to open it again?
sadly no.
Is there a way of banning myself just from one thread so I'm not even tempted to open it again?
What i love most about this thread is FG moving from just arguing that Lebron is not as good as Jordan was to arguing that he isnt even that good, like a league average player. Only elite thing about his game is apparently rim attack.
Jordan break-even defender?
Kobe produced great dynasties? Plural?? Put Pow on the Deron Boozer Jazz and they win five in a row.
Hell, Pow with Stockton & Malone really might’ve won five in a row.
It's statistical fact that the Lakers' defense craters when Lebron is on the floor, but if Lebron was forced to exert enough energy to break-even defensively, while also playing 82 games instead of resting against the better comp, he would average around 10 ppg.. This is how we know that MJ was amazing for averaging 20 ppg, since it was over 82 games (no resting) and he was a b
Most people would say that 28/12/10 on 50% shooting at his age is a really good. Even the most bias people. But we know you're next level.
Yeah, Curry situation of being a 73 win team and then adding the 2nd best player in the league wasn't good for him.
But what kind of help did Curry achieve the 73-win team with?
He achieved it with a lower producer at sidekick than 09' Mo, and a MUCH lower producer than Jeff Hornacek, as detailed in recent pages.. They won 73 with this crap because of the Warriors' headstart in the 3ball format and Curry's dominance.
Accordingly, it's objective fact that KD joined a 1-man team whose headstart and advantage in the 3ball format was waning..
Prior to KD's arrival, the Warriors were a surprise team that came out of nowhere in 2015 as the lowest preseason odds to win a title.. Klay and Dray are system players that would be "nobodies" on a losing team like Jordan Poole or Harvey Grant (Horace's brother)..
Ultimately, Curry's superior brand of ball and chemistry allows winning with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player, while Lebron's ball-dominance requires super-teams of 3 franchise players.. And despite the super-teams, Lebron still barely wins 50 games with the preseason favorite, thereby falling to perennial underdog.. The Bron-ball skillset simply produces weaker teams.
Most people would say that 28/12/10 on 50% shooting at his age is a really good. Even the most bias people. But we know you're next level.
Lebron is infinitely fresher by sitting out against all the top comp and being allowed to play 2 side of the ball.
If he was required to play every game and defense, he would never get those numbers and certainly couldn't average 20 ppg like Jordan did at 40.
What i love most about this thread is FG moving from just arguing that Lebron is not as good as Jordan was to arguing that he isnt even that good, like a league average player. Only elite thing about his game is apparently rim attack.
It's something we've uncovered itt.
Lebron is actually a bad offensive rebounder.. You wouldn't think so due to his physique and athleticism, but he is.
Lebron also shoots 36% for his career outside of 5 feet.. He's below average as a jumpshooter from three or mid-range and BY FAR the worst jumpshooter among any perimeter player in the top 20.
Furthermore, Lebron's footwork out of the "triple-threat position" (pre-dribble, stationary position) and post footwork is flat-out BAD or materially-below average... He often looks like a beginner..
And let's not even BEGIN to talk about his footwork and ability off-screens - it's non-existent - this bum stands a lot and doesn't move off screens, thereby hampering ball movement and the caliber of team offense that's possible... Consequently, "Bron-ball" is the standard, which imposes spot-up roles that stall young players, thereby needing ready-made stars to win (zero young player development) - this is literally the statistical reality... Specifically, "Bron-ball" increases everyone's assisted buckets/spot-up role, which craters their assists and creates low assist teams.. Lebron simply prevents the higher level of team offense that all the dynasties had (Duncan, MJ, Curry, etc)
Jordan break-even defender
Kobe produced great dynasties Plural Put Pow on the Deron Boozer Jazz and they win five in a row.
Hell, Pow with Stockton & Malone really might've won five in a row.
It's easy to forget that Stockton was considered better than Isiah in the late 80's and 90's
Accordingly, it's appropriate to think of the stockton-malone combo as equal or superior to ISIAH-malone....
So the Jazz basically had Isiah/Malone and then a 3rd option (Hornacek) that had a different tier of production than Klay (far higher career PER, BPM, WS/48, VORP)... Awesome role players like Ostertag, Russell, Carr, Eisely and Anderson littered the remaining cast..
By 1998, the Stockton/Malone duo had been together for 10 years and were every bit as good as the Bad Boys.. That's why they swept Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers and Popovich/Duncan Spurs... However, the Stockton/Malone duo had already taken Magic's Lakers to 7 games in 88' with Stockton outplaying Magic, so the Jazz were great for a long time.
New top 8
Jordan
Horry
Kobe
Jeff Hornacek
Larry Hughes
Antawn Jamison
Lebron James
Scottie Pippen
This thread has uncovered that the all time leading scorer (on .590 TS%), 4 time MVP, was not just overrated but actually outright *bad* at basketball.
LeBron probably would've been better at age 30 if he gave baseball an honest try than Jordan was too.
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MJ never lost a sprint, aka never lost a "suicide"
MJ had a 4.3 forty yard dash according to Roy Williams and was much faster than Lebron.. Lebron is big and bulky, thereby losing sprints in practice to shorter faster guys, like Shumpert.. Ultimately, Jordan has the optimal physique for speed that's closer to Usain Bolt's physique
I liked the one where Larry shot a sky hook from 6 feet and the guy didn't get out of the hands down position.
This thread has uncovered that the all time leading scorer (on .590 TS%), 4 time MVP, was not just overrated but actually outright *bad* at basketball.
Lebron is really good compared to you or me, or even most NBA players, but he's BAD compared to peers that he's actually compared to like Duncan or Curry..
For example, when Duncan, Curry, MJ, and Kobe got help, they produced dominant teams and dynasties, while Lebron barely wins 50 games with the preseason favorite, thereby falling to perennial underdog.. He simply produces weaker teams that have a lottery record on the championship level.
And the weaker teams are due to Lebron's skill deficit compared to Curry, Duncan and company... Their skillset facilitates great ball movement, chemistry and brand of ball, while his ball-dominance imposes spot-up roles and weaker 5-man basketball, thereby requiring more talent.
Another less-discussed aspect is the fact that excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, so Lebron can't carry the scoring load against top teams like Curry, MJ, Kobe or Duncan did (who could drop 40 while the ball moves)... This matters because players that can carry the "star" category scoring require less stars, thereby allowing GM's to find the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction.. So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction compared to peers, while his skillset of imposing spot-up roles further hampers roster construction.
Ultimately, some skillsets simply prove SUPERIOR... For example, in the play-by-play era, there have been 4 dynasties (3 chips in in 5 years) and 8 dominant title runs (1 loss average per round, 4 losses max)... All 12 instances required a big or jumpshooter as the 1st option, so primary ballhandlers have never been the 1st option for the best basketball (dynasty or dominant title run).
Hope that helps
Who is closer to a Usain Bolt physique - MJ or Lebron ??
Again, Lebron can't run a 4.3 forty or even 4.4 or 4.5
And there are zero stories of him winning every sprint in practice because he probably almost never won
Anyone that played ball knows that the short guys win all the sprints... And easily.
