GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

Lebron was lucky to go 2 for 4: with the best help possible:

2010

Lebron..... #1 PER.... #1 BPM... #1 WS/48... #1 VORP
Wade....... #2 PER.... #2 BPM... #2 WS/48... #2 VORP

History shows that when Lebron is teamed up with "Shaq", such as 2 other superstars, he goes 1 for 4 (1 title in 4 years).. Lebron went 1 for 4 with AD, Love/Kyrie, or Wade/Bosh (except the Allen miracle).

Lebron also stunk as a rookie with barely 20 ppg on bad efficiency (less PER than 40-year old MJ), so he wouldn't win anything with Shaq, who was a perennial loser himself and swept for the first 7 seasons of his career...

Lebron was a massive bricklayer that got historically locked up in the 07' and 08' Playoffs, while Shaq was getting swept every year with a 1st Team All-NBA guard as a teammate.. Lebron and Shaq were literally the biggest free throw bricklayers and the biggest losers of all-time until Kobe and Wade showed them how to relish the pressure... This is the historical record (not opinion)..

A few percentage points doesn't change the point being made.

MJ always shot threes well when he had above "bailout" volume.. In other words, anytime he tried to shoot threes, he shot well.. The same can't be said for Lebron, who has many seasons and series of shooting poorly from three.

Yeah of course everyone else practices out of racks all the time except Jordan.

Jordan had great mid range. That's where his range ended. Just accept it and stop making up nonsense to filter out all his failures.

You apparently didn't watch Mo in 2009 - he was amazing

Mo transformed a crappy 45-win team by opening up the floor for LeDrive, which elevated him to MVP level.. Unlike MJ or Kobe, who can shoot over packed paints, LeDrive's skillset needs great spacing to be MVP caliber... Infact, for Lebron to win 60 games and MVP, he's always needed all-star spacers like Mo or Ray Allen (09', 13').. Lebron also needs the playmaking help that Mo provided, so Klay's system-dependant spot up role isn't enough help.

So again, Lebron carried Mo to 66 wins and then Curry carried a lower producer to 73 wins...Accordingly, the Warriors were a 1-man team, but Curry doesn't get credit for "carrying" like Lebron did because the term "73-win team" implies "stacked"... This robs Curry of the carry-job... Ultimately, KD joined a 1-man team that was led by the only unanimous MVP in history.

First of all, tons of great shooters had a bad round... It means nothing.. Bad argument.. Otoh, Jordan's accomplishment of never shooting poorly when he had volume isn't just meaningful, it's literally everything - aka it's hard to claim that MJ wouldn't shoot well at today's volumes when he literally always did over the course of his career.. Let that sink in... Essentially, anytime MJ tried to shoot threes, he shot well, while Lebron has many series or seasons of shooting poorly at 3+ attempts.

Secondly, anyone that played and therefore played with 3-point contest participants knows that practicing threes out of racks is a big deal specifically because it ISN'T common or optimal otherwise.. Racks don't mimick game action or routes and would be a ridiculous training method compared to having a rebounder or other methodologies.

Thirdly, Jordan's range extended to halfcourt because he has many in-game highlights of making half court shots without breaking form - like a free throw.

Ultimately, it makes sense that MJ would be a great 3-point shooter because he always shot well when he tried, while already being the goat 2-point jumpshooter with goat scoring touch, form, clutch, and good FT efficiency.. Any scout that was looking at old tape to scout MJ for today's game would say that his jumper projects PHENOMENALLY

JORDAN: built single-digit rookie teammates

LEBRON: everyone was already good before he got them

(Players that were already good before joining Lebron include Zydrunas, Hughes, Mo, Jamison, Wade, Bosh, Love, Kyrie, AD, Luka, and MANY more)

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Today's players jog and saunter from 3-point line to 3-point line, while previous eras had to SPRINT from rim to rim:

Anyone can make compilation videos that show whatever they want. We done with the 90's lol.

Actually the 90's were greater than today in a million ways. But the athletes of today are just way better in basically every sport.

You guys are basically making stuff up when you say that today's athletes are "way" more athletic... Studies show that the few tenths of a second that 100 meter times are faster today compared to the 90's can be easily chalked up to training/steroids and equipment like the shoes or track surface/conditions.. This is scientific fact..

You guys act like previous eras were high school level and today's era is pro, but that's not how it works - the differences are minimal to negligible all told.. Today's game probably had more non-elite athletes dominating like Luka, Jokic, Curry, Duncan and others, and this is due to the weakening of defensive rules as time has progressed.. This began with the hand-check ban and defensive 3 in 2005, and then the no-impede and other rule changes in 2017.. The 3-point revolution also required less athleticism to score... This stuff allowed more physically weak players to subsist in the league and many non-athletes to dominate.

Secondly, all the superior athleticism and size that you're imagining is occurring at the point guard spott.. The 2 thru 5 positions are smaller than they've ever been and the athleticism difference is negligible or might even favor prior eras... When we match up the 96' Bulls to the KD Warriors, we see that the Warriors are far less athletic and diminutive compared to the Bulls, and they would be the physically weakest team that the Bulls ever faced..

Furthermore, the point is that most athletic wings like Jaylen Brown or Lebron shoot barely 70% from the line... MJ is one of the only athletic scoring wings that shoots around 83-84% most of the time and even higher... Again, he's the only goat athlete that was also a goat shooter on either 2's or 3's... Other goat athletes like Giannis, Lebron, Westbrook, Dr. J, Zion, etc - they're jumpers are all broke compared to MJ.. MJ had the best mid-range shooting ever in the 91' Finals and led the league in scoring for 96-98' on all turnarounds practically... It's a goat combination of athleticism and skill.

Again, it doesn't change the point being made

Most athletic wings don't shoot 84% on FT for their career... It's quite rare and a good sign of a good shooter.. For example, you guys say that MJ is Jaylen Brown but Jaylen shoots barely 70% with trash form, just like Lebron... Neither is anywhere near 84% with goat form and touch like MJ... Anyone that watches Jaylen's jumper and thinks it compares to the goat 2-point point shooter (MJ) simply doesn't know much about basketball or have the ability to make accurate judgements.

Ultimately, your inability to differentiate bricklayers like Lebron from lights-out or "knock-down" shooters like MJ is because you can't recognize good shooting form - you don't know what it looks like.... Someone might mention words like "fundamentals" or "mechanics" and you really don't know what they're talking about... You simply regurgitate Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe, ESPN and the arguments of other clutch goons... Literally - you make all the debunked arguments they make..

Anyone can watch 90 seconds of today's game and see the wide open paint, abundant in-stride layups in the halfcourt, and extremely weak contesting of drives or shots.... It's plain as day to a toddler that today's game is easier, aka having everyone stand behind the 3-point line to space the floor and empty the paint makes offense easier, especially with less contact allowed and more traveling/carrying allowed

So... many... horrible... comparisons.

Anyway, if you think having Klay on your team means that other players need to take on "max defensive attention", you've obviously never watched the Warriors play basketball. So dumb.

I mean if you want to argue that defenders can sag off Pippen. I mean... okay.

You can't do that to Klay. No one ever sagged. Because he was the 2nd GOAT shooter.

Klay may be the only player you could add to any team ever, and they become better. He can score 20ppg and he doesn't need the ball, and you don't need to call a play for him.

4% isn't "a few percentage points". It's more than the difference between Jordan FG% and DeRozen's. Are they the same?

I mean... I didn't even mention anything about MJ's 3 point shooting.... Is your brain broken?

Stick the 90s guys in today's game they would flat out die. They never had to run around to play defense. Just stand near the paint and be big.

Klay forced Curry to carry the scoring load, aka face max defensive attention.

You can't get past this statistical fact

Klay was a low producer that forced Curry to carry the load

Klay was just a screen runner and gets locked down against any non-lazy defender - that's a historical and statistical fact - he was a low producer that couldn't match Hornacek or 09' Mo

FT percentage was brought up to provide evidence that Jordan was a great shooter.. FT shooting has always been a pretty good predictor of a prospect's 3-pt efficiency, so it's a box that Jordan checks.. It's rare for an athletic wing to check this box at an 84% career clip.

But ultimately, it's hard to claim that Jordan wouldn't shoot well at today's volumes when he always did during his career.. He shot 36.4% in regular season games with 3+ attempts and 39% in series with 3+ attempts.. Again, his low career percentage is due bailout volume in most seasons - but anytime he had volume, he shot well.

Ultimately, one of the biggest misconceptions of Jordan's career is that 80's Jordan couldn't shoot... The reality is that 87' Jordan was the greatest 2-point jumpshooter ever and made more jumpers that season than anyone ever has... Every game was 37 ppg of mostly beautiful jumpers - one beautiful jumper after another - the majority of his 37 ppg was jumpers... Even KD says that Jordan is a top 5 all-time jumpshooter .. Unfortunately, the layman doesn't know this (media and casual fans)... Carry on

Today's game shows 10 guys sauntering and jogging at half speed..

It's a complete joke..

It's a slower game where offensive and defensive players get to camp at the 3-point line and ultimately travel less distance than prior eras.. I rarely see guys sprinting or needing to go full speed.. The spacing slows the action down and makes it less frantic than prior eras.

Ultimately, most of today's game is spent standing around on both ends and letting guys drive by and score. The rules literally mandate that defenders can't "impede" ballhandlers, so the rules literally mandate no defense

Btw, Lebron inflates his stats by resting 25+ games and avoiding all the good teams or players, while not playing viable defense.

I'm sure 40-year Jordan would've increased his average by 5 ppg if he rested 25 games and avoided all the top guys or teams, while not being required to play defense... But instead, he played 82 games and faced everyone, while playing solid defense.

Smh.. Enjoy your fraud....

It's also amazing that Lebron whined that "we can't sustain effort for 48 minutes" when he's the biggest culprit of this - he's the only guy on the team that can't sustain the effort, and therefore he's the only guy that craters the team on both ends.. It's an amazing lack of self-awareness

Regarding Jordan's jumpshooting - not only was 87' Jordan the goat 2-point jumpshooter that made more jumpers in a season than anyone ever has, but look at how PRECISE his jumpshooting was, aka the footwork off screens and perfect release - everything was so precise - 87' jordan was a SURGICAL jumpshooter... Ultimately, 1987 was Jordan's 2nd healthy season, and he carried the league's worst cast to .500 by getting 3000 points, 200 steals and 100 blocks.. It was the 2nd time ever that someone scored 3000 and the first time someone got 200 steals and 100 blocks together.

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Recent Thread Cliffs

1) It's logical that 40-year MJ would've increased his average by 5 ppg if he rested 25 games and avoided all the top teams, while not being required to play viable defense (the Lakers' defense craters with Lebron on the floor)... Due to this stat inflation by Lebron, his stats mean nothing and he's inferior to 40-year MJ.

2) History proves that Lebron wouldn't win much with Shaq, since Lebron is clearly a 1 for 4 guy (1 title in 4 years) when he gets great help - he went 1 for 4 with AD, Love/Kyrie, or Wade/Bosh (except the Allen miracle).

Lebron was a massive bricklayer that got historically locked up in the 07' and 08' Playoffs, while "hack-a-shaq" O'Neal was swept for the first 7 years of his career despite a 1st Team All-NBA teammate.. Lebron and Shaq were literally the biggest bricklayers and losers of all-time until Kobe and Wade showed them how to relish the pressure..

3) Mo transformed a crappy 45-win team by opening up the floor for LeDrive, which elevated him to MVP level.. Unlike MJ or Kobe, who can shoot over packed paints, LeDrive's skillset needs great spacing to be MVP caliber... Lebron also needs the playmaking help that Mo provided, so Klay's system-dependant spot up role isn't enough help.

So again, Lebron carried Mo to 66 wins and then Curry carried a lower producer to 73 wins... Accordingly, the Warriors were a 1-man team, but Curry doesn't get credit for "carrying" like Lebron because the term "73-win team" implies "stacked"... This robs Curry of the carry-job... Ultimately, KD joined a 1-man team that was led by the only unanimous MVP in history.

4) It's hard to claim that MJ wouldn't shoot threes well at today's volumes when he always did over the course of his career... He shot 36.4% in regular season games with 3+ attempts and 39% in series with 3+ attempts (from the regular line)... Again, his low career percentage is due bailout volume in most seasons - but anytime he had volume, he shot well... Essentially, anytime MJ tried to shoot threes, he shot well, while Lebron has many series or seasons of shooting poorly at 3+ attempts.

5) 1987 was Jordan's 2nd healthy season, and he carried the league's worst cast to .500 by getting 3000 points, 200 steals and 100 blocks.. It was the 2nd time ever that someone scored 3000 and the first time someone got 200 steals and 100 blocks together.

6) By virtue of being the first player in history to lift a lottery team to champion in 1 year, AD should've been MVP in 2020... He led the Lakers in scoring and carried the defense from worst to first... That's easily MVP, but the media has agendas, bias and group think... Heck, they have a fake debate to maintain!!

He missed over a month with an injury and is on a minutes restriction since back coming off the bench, and had an efficient 18 in 28mins