GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
omg, this YT comment is something
Michael Jordan never had a case to be the number 1 NBA player of all time. He never had a case to be the number 1 NBA shooting guard of all time. When he played in the NBA he never had a case to be the number 1 NBA player when he played in the NBA. When it comes to all the NBA players who ever played in the NBA, lots of NBA players are better than him. If you are going to rank NBA players, you shouldn't rank him that high. Lots of NBA players could beat him in a one on one game. He is not a perfect NBA player. He doesn't have the number 1 NBA statistics of all time. When it comes to most NBA statistics he is not in the top 14. He is not the number 1 NBA scorer of all time. He is the only overrated NBA hall of famer. He is the most overrated sports star of all time. And I could give you more examples of the ridiculous things that Michael Jordan fans bring up, but you get the point...............Also..............Michael Jordan fans have lots of takes where they are factually wrong. They are not consistent. They make things up. They assume things. They don't do enough research. They move the goal post. They cherry pick things. They exaggerate things. They act like they're right but they don't show any proof that they're right. They make fun of you. They insult you. They get really negative. And there are more examples of things that have to do with Michael Jordan fans but you get the point...........Also...............Michael Jordan fans are the worst sports fans of all time. And they are the flat Earthers of the NBA world then..........Now............if you disagree, you can go on my program and show me why you are right. If you want to go on email [email][email protected][/email]...........And now watch how most Michael Jordan fans will ignore all this. And they won't go on my program to show me how they're right on whatever they disagree on. And they will write something silly. And they will write something negative.................And you know why they are like this?................Because they know that they have no proof that will prove that they are right in whatever they disagree on. They have too much pride to admit that they are wrong in anything. They have a desperate need to type something to make themselves feel like they won. They are not patient people. They don't want to know how any of there takes are questionable. They feel like it's easier for them to feel like they're winning when they type online. They feel more comfortable typing online. They are in love with Michael Jordan. They are influenced by the media about Michael Jordan. They are not educated on the NBA. They want to believe what they believe. They have negative personalities in general. And there are more examples of why they are like this but you get the point.
Hit up that email TWOG, you two could go back and forth until the sun dies.
The reality is that Woolridge and Gervin were just as talented as Pippen (and more talented)... However, only Pippen got a real tenure alongside prime MJ .. Woolridge and Gervin only got 1 season with rookie or injured Jordan, and Gervin didn't play in the playoffs...
Nonetheless, the team still made progress each year and built the foundation for a future dynasty because MJ got the organization playoff experience both years.. His 63 points let the league know that the Bulls were coming.. Then he hit "the shot" in 89', which was another major catapult for the franchise - it was the difference between a rebuild and ECF experience vs the Bad Boys - a critical dynasty-building step.
People don't realize that Jordan built the Bulls into the 3rd best team by the end of the 89' Playoffs, so Phil inherited a team that was already on the cusp of greatness..
Phil was lucky to have the goat carry his top-heavy offense, which he swore it wouldn't be - Phil promised that the triangle would spread the wealth and MJ wouldn't be scoring champ anymore, but MJ's scoring rate, usage and FGA increased from 90-93' compared to 85-89', and Jordan was scoring champ 7 of 7 seasons in the triangle.
I mean the Bull went from the 12th best offense to the 5th best offense in the triangles first year, and the best offense in the 2nd year (by a lot).
But, obviously, nothing to do with the triangle.
I mean the Bull went from the 12th best offense to the 5th best offense in the triangles first year, and the best offense in the 2nd year (by a lot).
But, obviously, nothing to do with the triangle.
We know that the triangle's success rate at getting a sufficient look for role players is actually quite low, since the offense required the goat scoring burden from the 1st option.
Essentially, I'm not disputing the triangle's effectiveness - I'm saying the requirements to make it effective are absurd, such as the most top-heavy offense ever/goat scoring burden, and this burden is achieved with no ball-dominance (so that the offense can still run for the role players).
To summarize, if you can get a goat scorer to handle the goat burden, then the triangle does infact space the floor and move the ball, thereby wearing down defenses (and leaving them less capacity for offense).. Indeed, basketball is an attrition battle, and the triangle can help you win it if you have the most perfect 1st option ever, i.e. someone that can handle a goat burden without dominating the ball.
So, what you are saying is that it worked. Why are we even talking then?
Yay triangle.
The triangle spaced the floor, but it didn't necessarily use threes.. Consequently, it was an entirely lower level of spacing than today's game, but still the best spacing of any team back then and the only real effort to space the floor in the 90's.. Unfortunately, Lebron isn't capable of using the only offense from the 90's that spaced the floor because it doesn't allow his skillset of ball-domination.
Furthermore, Lebron can only space the floor by coupling his driving game with many three-point shooting teammates, which didn't exist in the 90's.
Ultimately, Lebron wouldn't win in the 90's because he wouldn't be able to space the floor like his rival, and it's the same in this era because Lebron can't match Curry's spacing.
Btw, it shouldn't be surprising that the relatively poor spacing of the triangle (compared to today) didn't get teammates open looks that often (compared to today), and the better looks for teammates is why today game is less top heavy (lower burdens for the 1st option) than the triangle
For obvious reasons, the best structure for a 1st option's skillset is to have their primary strength be the skills that suit tight halfcourt sets (expert jumpshooting skill or big man), instead of having the primary strength be skills that suit transition (downhill/ball-domination).. The contrasting impacts that these skillsets have on clutch, ball movement, chemistry, teammate development and team ceiling is obvious...
From a historical standpoint, we know that the 1st option for the best basketball is always a jumpshooter or big, i.e. in the play-by-play era, all the dynasties (3 rings in 5 years), or dominant title runs (1 loss average per round, 4 losses max) had 1st options that were bigs or jumpshooters (never a primary ballhandler).
Of course, there are more numbers behind this.. The skillsets of bigs or jumpshooters are characterized by having many assisted buckets/higher career assisted rates (over 40%), so when they score a lot, teammates are still assisting them and the ball is moving.
You assume that the 90s play-style is the best no matter what, and work backwards from there. It was a watered down expansion era, with a baby 3pt line experiment. Modern teams would easily crush that play-style because it wasn't actually good.
You assume that the 90s play-style is the best no matter what, and work backwards from there. It was a watered down expansion era, with a baby 3pt line experiment. Modern teams would easily crush that play-style because it wasn't actually good.
The point is that anyone can play today's style (jacking threes) and that's how kindergartners play in 2026, all the way up to the college and NBA ranks.. Since anyone can jack threes, I'll take the era that was experts at 2-pointers as well - aka the era where everyone needed great instinct to operate in traffic and shooting touch to shoot over packed paints.. These things can't be picked up as quickly as the format of jacking threes in order to drive-and-kick against empty paints... I'll take the toughness and pure basketball instinct of Jordan, Pippen, Harper and Kerr - aka I'll trust each of them to attempt 5+ threes at 34% or better, while also outperforming the opponent on 2-pointers, rebounds, defense, chemistry and brand of ball (ball movement).
The point is that anyone can play today's style (jacking threes) and that's how kindergartners play in 2026, all the way up to the college and NBA ranks.. Since anyone can jack threes, I'll take the era that was experts at 2-pointers as well - aka the era where everyone needed great instinct to operate in traffic and shooting touch to shoot over packed paints.. These things ca
If anyone can do it why dont they?
Warriors vs Bulls.
Warriors better in every position except one. In that position they have the 2nd GOAT shooter, multiple time all-star and All-NBA (including defensive), didn't need the ball to be effective and who could score 20ppg in his sleep.
Lebron cratered Reaves so badly when Luka left with an injury. Amazing that Reeves scored 35 points in 25 minutes. Probably would've scored 70 points if Lebron not cratering him.
Warriors vs Bulls.
Warriors better in every position except one. In that position they have the 2nd GOAT shooter, multiple time all-star and All-NBA (including defensive), didn't need the ball to be effective and who could score 20ppg in his sleep.
^^^ are you talking about the Jazz and Hornacek??
Regular Season
Playoffs
Or Majerle, Miller, Steve Smith, Starks and many more that out-produced Klay, while having better casts.
The Bulls cast was out-produced by the opponent in every series, so MJ was always the difference - that's how they won every series
Lebron cratered Reaves so badly when Luka left with an injury. Amazing that Reeves scored 35 points in 25 minutes. Probably would've scored 70 points if Lebron not cratering him.
^^^ Reaves craters from 29 to 19 ppg alongside Lebron, while Jamison, Bosh and Love also cratered
By cratering 3rd options and also clashing with other ball-handlers, Lebron proves that he lacks elite IQ... These bad fits and chemistry is why Lebron produces weaker teams and lower team ceilings/Finals records
everyone DOES play that way today (jacking threes)
Kindergarteners jack threes in pee-wee leagues and NBA players do it in NBA games, so anyone can do it.. Basketball has morphed into "Threeball".
Btw , OKC won the Finals last year shooting 30% from three.. So it's really just about planting guys behind the line to space the floor - they don't have to hit the broadside of a barn (like OKC in the Finals) if they play top defense, clutch and chemistry.
Accordingly, the 96' Bulls would destroy any team today
That same search shows Reaves is at 23.5 PPG this year when he plays with LeBron. So why are you saying 19? Just be honest once in a while when comparing stats.
And then do the search for games Reaves played with no Luka. 36.2 PPG, 8.3 assists per game. So Luka is the true crater for Reaves' numbers. Reaves should clearly be the Lakers #1 based on this assessment. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they'd actually be a better team if they gave a chunk of Luka's usage over to Reaves.
holy **** this is still going?
Only based on all the stats.. And they aren't 1st options where you have to consider other factors like their brand of ball and fits/chemistry.. Klay is simply a much lower producer than Hornacek in their secondary roles
But the larger point is that the 17' Warriors fit the same situation of all the opponents that MJ beat, aka the Warriors' are dominated at SG but otherwise have a cast that out-produces the Bulls' cast.. Indeed, MJ's big edge at SG is how the Bulls won every series and the 17' Warriors would be no different, except their SG is a much lower producer than MJ was accustomed to dominating.. Hornacek, Miller, Drexler, and many other SG's massively out-produce Klay.. The 17' Warriors would need to overcome a minimum 25 ppg edge at SG (40 to 15).
Hope that helps.
That same search shows Reaves is at 23.5 PPG this year when he plays with LeBron. So why are you saying 19? Just be honest once in a while when comparing stats.
First of all, it's 19 ppg for 2025 and it was 22.4 this year prior to last night's game..
19-22 ppg is nothing compared to 29 ppg without Lebron, while being a top 5 scorer in the league and All-NBA caliber player with great playmaking too - one of the most dynamic players in the league.
Secondly, any bum can get 8 points and be a non-factor or role player, thereby not reducing Reaves... It's when Lebron tries to get anywhere near 20 points that Reaves is cratered... This contrasts with MJ, who could average 41 ppg and still have Pippen play to capacity... MJ could do this because he could drop 40 while the ball moves and teammates assist him
And then do the search for games Reaves played with no Luka. 36.2 PPG, 8.3 assists per game. So Luka is the true crater for Reaves' numbers.
I've always said that Lebron and Luka are both cancerous players with stat-padding, "downhill" skillsets that turn everyone into spot-up shooter.
History shows that ball-dominators like Luka and Lebron lack the chemistry to win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player... Accordingly, Reaves isn't enough help for them, even though he's easily out-producing Klay, Pippen or other sidekicks.. The difference is that these sidekicks played alongside 1st options that fostered better chemistry, so multiple franchise players weren't needed.
