The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Kinda weird to say you have all this money but can't be bothered to simply buy the product...

And there also other 7 hands that have been dealt which at least one has called or raised my kings. Many times those players that continue are continuing with an ace. But since we don't know what they have we use the odds based on not knowing any of the cards.

Like losing at poker?🙂

Everything that doesnt fit your narrative is a distraction huh??
Easy cop-out while you could just answer the questions.

You dont have to work another day in your life you say, well the people from Holdem Manager do. So just pay $50 for the product you use instead of abusing a trial period like some online bum.

Are you still baffled that you hit more Aces on the flop with KK than with AK/AQ/AJ?
Are you that delusional?
Before you ever play another hand on GG please look up the term blockers.

Also... huh... Why do you keep playing on a site that you claim is rigged?
In fact, you just claimed you've played at least 80.000 hands there.

If I was convinced a pokersite was rigging against me I wouldnt stay to play 80k hands there. I would save me some money and actually buy Holdem Manager so I wouldnt have to rely on trials only.

PS: Quick prediction: No question will be answered since it was just one whole big distraction :p

Actually after adjustments I made based on the stats and the rake back I'm not losing anymore. LOL

Unlike you I actually know all Pseudo RNGs are skewed to some extent and based on what Mike's mathematician friend stated my stats met the criteria. So you are wrong and I proved it.

Its indeed LOL that someone who isnt a pre-rb winner seems to think he knows poker
But, yea, be very proud of that "accomplishment"

You didnt prove anything and you know it. Neither did "Mike's mathematician friend" although I would love to see his work. So far in this thread and in the thread specifically made for you in the math forum (in which everyone said you were wrong and actually running well but somehow you never chimed in there) you were entirely proven wrong.
In case you still want to defend your erroneous work, here is the thread: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/pr...

But lets give you the benefit of the doubt 😉
You know how the RNG is skewed.... I dont. That gives you a massive edge!
Surely someone with such an edge would never chicken out on a HU challenge right?
So, lets play 20k hands on 500nl and you use all your knowledge of the skewed RNG that I dont have against me
When shall we start? 😀

Post your data and we'll look at it. It's not entirely clear what you're saying here. Is this all your hands, or just a sample of bad beats? It's easy to find thousands of bad beats if you just filter for those. But as always, we'd love to see the actual evidence of rigging, not just the claim.

Serious question: Why not abuse the system and start shoving preflop with crap hands?? You will often be behind and therefore you will win and easily print money 😉
If I knew of a pokersite where the worst hands would always win I'd play there and start shoving 72o.

you have 2k hands you say. Is this 2k isolated hands of 3to1 dogs winning nonetheless or 2k straight hands where there were some preflop all-ins and 3to1 dogs won 50+%?
If the latter, this is something that can happen due to variance, if it happens over 20k hands I'd be worried
If the first and you actually saw 2k all-in hands in a row and the 3to1 dogs came out on top I would be amazed. This wouldnt be normal variance.

Either way, import the hh's in a tracker and show us what you believe isnt normal.

Also what do you exactly mean with the phrase " I sent the first 1000 and they they were notarized. They refused my request." ?

My god, Slugant is STILL posting the same things over and over again. Get a life!

Any readers left: You see ‘mathematically challenged’ outcomes several times a day, in situations that only arise several times a day. Ask yourself how many similar have you seen in any game you have played with a real deck.

Personally, I have seen 3 in a lifetime. You will see 3 in a couple of hours play online. Oh, you see more hands is the excuse. But then you see several every day for as long as you play online, all day every day.

Guess what? You donÂ’t fit a lifetimes real hands within a days play online. Yet you log in for just one hour you WILL see an astounding result, if not several.

ItÂ’s sites maximising what is best for them. They are in an industry renowned for greed and the regulation is lapse. To believe they would not take advantage to maximise their profits is complete and utter naivety!

Even if you had the most conclusive proof of rigging, guess what? There is absolutely no-one who would even look at it to change anything! There is absolutely no-one at any regulator who would even understand poker odds or how to decipher the infoÂ… call them and ask, I have!

No-one at any audit house who could do the same, they have been simply asked to audit how often each card comes out in a fair ratioÂ… and NOT how it affects the hand.

Regulation concerns protecting the customer from losing beyond their meansÂ… and that is all.

Why Slugant dedicates his whole life telling people itÂ’s real, well you decide. Does he work for a major site, or is has he just lost the plot totallyÂ… could be either.

@theWaddy

I was part of building a tool for comparing your own stats to GTO which also has an analysis-part for how good/bad you have been running. Screenshot of how this looks is in the link to my post regarding GG:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Stuff like f.e. how often you hit your draws/sets is basically where the money is made. If you want, send me your hands and I run them through, just don't let it be less than 200k hands as else it's useless. If you don't understand, why it's useless, google variance ;-) Poker often feels unfair and rigged, but it's actually easy to determine if it's really rigged.

This is where Slugant and yourself fall short of the reality of online poker. IÂ’m a winning player and always have been for 25yrs or so.

A massive part of not believing in online poker is what i see allllllll of the time, any given hour. These are the hands IÂ’m not involved in, just witness to.

Unfortunately, this major contributionÂ… I would go as far to say the prime defining moments in me saying itÂ’s not possibly random Â…. Can never be part of any personal audit.

If I knew how to send you my personal hands, IÂ’m pretty sure I still wouldnÂ’tÂ…. Any person trying to prove it IS random, would just choose to reveal their findings the way they want to.

Slugant for example, if you sent him a sample of 200k, he would just focus on one hand of that 200k where I called and I was drawing deadÂ…. ItÂ’s what he does!

I know what I see in home games and what I see online. The two do not compare in the slightest.

Online providers consistently show their greed in being fined for their contempt towards customers. To believe they are not manipulating decks for their own gain, when the regulators admit they have no idea about pokerÂ… well itÂ’s just very very naive to believe that when you are seeing it for your own eyes on top of their known greed.

Once again, we get claims of mathematically impossible outcomes, but no evidence. And instead of providing evidence, you have excuses as to why there's no point because the evidence won't be believed.

Your entire argument basically comes down to "I know what I see and it's totally rigged. Trust me." Well, I've been playing online poker for over 20 years, and have played millions of hands across multiple sites, and I have yet to observe anything that would cause me to think it's rigged. So, where does that leave us?

The whole point of the scientific method is providing objective, testable evidence, not anecdotal claims and easily distorted memories.

So, instead of repeating the same nonsense ad nauseam, how about this: go online, and play for one hour. That's it, just one hour of hands. Post every hand you played, and point out all the "astounding results" that you think prove rigging. You claim that one hour is enough to see at least one such result, if not several. So it shouldn't be that tough to prove. Pick any site, any stakes, any game. I won't hold my breath.

I only play Omaha hi lo online now, a game where you can have more control over the magical decks and have guaranteed parts of the pot.

How about we just all pick a table of the Sky Poker nightly freeroll and all observe?

I can absolutely guarantee you will see astounding results time after time. Why? Because it’s an all in preflop fest and will show it for what it is.

EG You will see AK v 78 and an ace on the flop… hand basically over real deck…. Online, if you hit the flop tht hard, you are done!

I would back runner runner straight, or running 7 or 8 here alllllll day. Who on earth wud with a real deck!?

To say absolutely anyone who plays millions of hands and doesn’t notice the ridiculous outcomes, can only be those who rely on those very outcomes in their game.

You will pick holes in what IÂ’m saying but I will leave you with one mysterious fact.

Online poker providers are usually bookmakers or offer other forms of gambling. They will take ANY bet within its true odds. You want a bet that your Son will play football for England? They will give you a price.

So I asked about bets in certain combined odds scenarios where I knew what the outcome would be and that I would be willing to take up to HALF of the actual odds if I won.

Basically asked them to back their own decks and that actual odds will stack up. Any greedy bookmaker (and believe, they are ALL greedy) would jump at the chance of such great odds, right?

They would not take my bet. Why, Because they know they would lose multiple high end odds bets. Why else. Offer me a plausible alternative explanation.

A bookmaker who turns down bets with odds massively in their favour. The oddest thing everÂ… unless they know the odds are not actually in their favour of courseÂ….. hmmmm!

In the end you have two people actually claiming that when you have pocket kings and you see the flop, you should see an ace 22.5% of the time on the flop. That ignores the fact that people rarely continue with 2 3, 2 4, 2 5, 2 6, 2 7, 2 8 etc etc. Because to actually expect to see an ace on the flop 22.5% of the time, players would have to continue (call) and see the flop at the exact same percentage with all the non ace hands/hole cards combined as they see with all their hands/hole cards with aces combined (AA, A K, A Q, A J, A 10 etc.), and anyone who has played Texas Holdem know that absurd.

To expect to see the ace on the flop 22.5% of the time your opponents who continued, would have to have an ace no more than 16% of the time. That's laughable.

To expect to see the ace on the flop 21.7% of the time your opponents would have to have an ace 30.9% of the time.

On all my ~80000 hands combined I saw the flop 20.68% of the time.

On the 16544 hands I say the flop, I had at least one ace 6076 hands. 6076/16544 = 36.72%. So I'm being conservative and ace might be showing up very close to 2.57 standard deviation from the mean which is 100 to 1. This doesn't even take into consideration 3 betting with kings, which reduces the quantity of non ace hands played, and increasing the percentage aces are played. I'll bet these clowns will never show the real percentages they continue/call to see the flop with an ace. And when they have pocket kings they definitely won't continue to bet like their opponents have an ace only 16% of the time when an ace hits the flop. Put you money where your mouth is, bet like your pocket kings are still best hand. LOL

I have seen you talk about omaha h/l before in here and you suck. The rest of the post is just nonsense yo i wont comment.

Some poker providers also have a sportsbook. none of them is going to offer you any special odds or accept weird bets that arent offered by which ever provider they signed with.

You really think these poker rooms employ some dudes with rolled up sleeves and half smoked cigarettes trying to figure out what odds to give some bloke on his 50 pound wager if his son is going to play for tottenham one day.

You dont only have no idea at all about poker you also have no idea at all about the industry you are commenting on but that seems par for the course.

Why dont you discuss you interesting work in the proper forum? Teflon dawg was kind enoufh to already create a thread for you: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/pr...

Yep. Patiently waiting for a post of substance instead of all this noise I see itt...

All you're really saying here is you play PLO8 because it's a lower variance game than PLO and NLH

So the most weird hands you are seeing you are not actually involved in, just witness to?
Sounds like the RNG is rigged in your favor then, no wonder you are a 25 year long winner :p
In all seriousness, and I dont know why I try because it wont reach your skull, but instead of always speaking of the hands you see "allllllll of the time" why dont show them or post them. You have the key to show the world poker is rigged but you keep on declining. Its exactly what a shill what do... so what site are you working for? Why do you give your whole life to withholding evidence of a rigged RNG?

How would you know, ever tried? The chances of me taking a 200k hand sample serious is infinitely times bigger than you actually posting a 200k hand sample 😉

But if you dont trust me, dont worry, there are other places to check the fairness in your data

FR-Nit, I am sure TheWaddy already sent you the 200k hand sample to the world could finally see what he sees..
What was the outcome? 🙂

Welcome back!

'PLO8 is a lower variance game than NLH'...... You heard it here first folks!

And another 'rep' here backing bookmakers for turning down bets where i would accept half the actual odds, as being normal.... And Slugant, no example needed for him....... Strange bunch backing online nonsense......

Strange guy having 200k hands of data exposing that poker is rigged but instead chooses to keep it to himself... talk about shielding "online nonsense"
But then again, why would you, the rigged RNG clearly works in your favor 🙂

Players who believe online poker is rigged have an interest in this thread... as they want change and they are disgusted with so-called Regulators claiming they regulate it without actually knowing anything about poker and its odds. Thats why they post, to raise awareness.

Players who back it, would have zero interest in this thread as they think these players are sore losers and nothing else. They are unlikely to read such a thread more than once, if at all.

Then we have Slugant and 2 others, who back it and say the same thing over and over for 3000 pages, month in month out. Never get bored of it.

Why would they care what 'these losers' think, when the subject doesnt affect them in the slightest?

Site reps is the answer. Nip it in the bud. Insult them. Belittle them.

No-one but no-one would waste their days like this unless it was for financial gain. Wholly consistent with Sites greed, customer manipulation techniques and pulling wool over eyes.

Notice on ALL FORUMS on this subject, the language, the belittling techniques are all EXACTLY the same. No debate, no slight understanding.... Just that you are stupid and the same 'players' stick around to repeat themselves to 'prove it'.... knowing it is totally unprovable and even if you took years to do so, no-one with any authority would even look at it.

Another distraction by TheWaddy..

He clearly has data to incriminate the evil poker sites but he keeps it to himself, never showing any of it. You can point the finger all you want but you are helping these evil coorporations.

You post to raise awareness you say.
What do you thinks causes more awareness... a rambling story or data and facts?

You can keep exclaiming that rigged poker is unprovable but you damn well know it is. You just dont have the proof.

And there it is..... the post he has repeated and repeated for 3000 pages.....

2 weeks ago,i asked anyone who wanted a laugh to join me observing Sky Pokers nightly freeroll, to watch the 'all in preflop fest' and the ridiculous amounts of unlikely outcomes. Many all in preflops expose the decks for what they are. I played it for the first time in months tonight, it appears i was psychic if it was indeed random, as it played out as it does every night....exactly how i described it... going out in 12th out of 246 gave me a long cracking view!

My all in preflops included a flopped flush (0.8% chance), a rivered straight flush (0.029% or 37260-1), a straight when calling an all in with 6 10, before going out to a 5.8% river! This was on top of all the silliness i witnessed as not part of the hand.

ive requested the hand history to post later, but we know Slugant and his 2 friends will just go on about variance... you know that thing you can attribute to the 5.8% river maybe... but not so much to the 37260-1 shot compounded with the 122-1 shot in the 80 or so hands i played.

Sky actually posted the 'badbeat' of their live Glasgow tournament a year or so ago which was AJ hitting a jack river versus AK... no sign of the above in 3 days or so....

I'm a rep? Ok, Waddy, please tell everyone itt what sportsbook(s) I represent

I made 5 figures profit from online poker again in 2025. Neither of the sites I played on are sportsbooks. You are not bright