1/3, JJ as 3-bettor on A-high flop
1/3 8handed / Hero 500 effective
Game just opened
MP is known reg, plays too loose on early streets and too tight on late streets
Button unknown, but has the look of a professional. Not talking about the way he dresses, but the way he carries himself. Seems like he knows what he’s doing.
MP opens 15 - Hero (CO) 3bets 45 with JdJs
Button cold calls, MP calls
(135) Ac7d5c
Dreaded high card strikes again, no folding out better hands now.
MP checks, Hero checks,
I know that checking the flop, after 3betting pre is not the norm, but I could find no good reason to bet. Maybe it’s more acceptable to check multiway?
Button bets 50, MP calls, Hero ?
Could Button be firing, because Hero checked?
MP is calling everything until the next street; he’s no help.
12 Replies
Button is most likely not a pro and most likely does not know what he is doing. His preflop play is usually bad and his flop sizing is also usually bad.
As played, seems like a standard spot to xfold. Maybe you can call if you have the Jc. XR bluffing the flop here probably runs into a brick wall and is also better with the Jc.
Yeah, I agree. You could take a little stab OTF, but generally I prefer the check. This doesn't mean you're always going to give up, but once it goes bet then call, I think you should just fold.
You'd be making a big mistake range betting this flop, checking is good. Also with your betting range you can go really small multiway, even like 15% pot. Puts pocket pairs in a tough spot multiway even for that size, and folds out air.
Check folding is good, you can even check fold in a one on one situation unless they bet very small
MP opens 15 - Hero (CO) 3bets 45 with JdJs
Button cold calls, MP calls
(135) Ac7d5c
MP checks, Hero checks,
Button bets 50, MP calls, Hero ?
.
Hero calls - bad move, good result, except
(285) Ac7d5c (Jc)
the flush draw gets there
MP checks, Hero checks, Button bets 125
MP folds, Hero?
Raising might fold him, while calling keeps the bluffs in and disguises our strength.
Hero calls, has 290 behind
(535) Ac7d5cJc (3d)
Brick on the river. Flush is plausible, but villain’s line has a lot of overplayed Ax, maybe 2pair or a missed draw.
Hero checks, and after a short pause,
villain jams 290
Hero?
The problem with calling flop without the Jc is that one of the only two cards that improves your hand also brings in the flush for the other two guys, as we see here.
As played, this is a very standard check-call on river. What flushes can he even have? KQcc only? You are at the top of your range, took a line that incentivizes bluffs, and maybe even beat some of your opponents' value bets.
Thought I was being innovative, copying and replying with previous post, as I have heard complaints about having to scroll back for what happened previously in a hand
I think thread agrees that flop is just a check/fold. As played we're not folding. Btn really shouldn't have any flushes here. Too bad if he does and good mental note to make that he doesn't know what he's doing.
Thought I was being innovative, copying and replying with previous post, as I have heard complaints about having to scroll back for what happened previously in a hand
That's a thing primarily with the new software. And very long threads with the old stuff.
I can see x or b25-33 on flop. You're supposed to have an Ace here, a lot of the time, and if you do, you're not also drawing to the flush. Or betting small, like you were block betting. Folding flop AP, and probably crying calling river now. You lose to flushes, ldo, but V can have more than flushes here, and a set of jacks beats most of them. Hero needs to be right only ~28% here?
Stupid.question (but that's me!): Given that H is calling, is it better to rejam turn vs calling and hoping to boat up? We close out V's bluffs admittedly by doing so. Will V fold stuff that beats H though?
I always try to post the original hand and what happens along the way, so I appreciate it. I hate having to scroll back!
Thought I was being innovative, copying and replying with previous post, as I have heard complaints about having to scroll back for what happened previously in a hand
That's a thing primarily with the new software. And very long threads with the old stuff.I can see x or b25-33 on flop. You're supposed to have an Ace here, a lot of the time, and if you do, you're not also drawi
What hand that beats us would fold to a turn jam? I can't think of a single one. Are you trying to fold out a flush? If you get to the turn this way I think you've got to just call. You want to keep the bluffs in (if there are any).
That being said, what is he really bluffing with? I think vs a typical 1/3 opponent the river could be a fold. I don't buy that he's overvaluing Ax when he could just check back river. Maybe worse sets might jam river, but that's a small portion of his range and it's questionable whether 77 or 55 really cold call the pre flop 3 bet.
On the river I expect to be shown a flush almost always. Yes it's kind of fishy for him to show up with flushes in this spot, but he took a fishy line and that's what fish do.
I don't know why OP is assuming an unknown villain cold-calling on the button in a spot where they should never be calling is a pro? Because of the way they carry themselves? That seems like a very odd assumption. This is a 1/3 game. If I see a face I don't recognize and I'm a reg in the game I assume 9 times out of 10 it's a fish.
Anyway what is he really bluffing with into two opponents on the flop and turn, that didn't already get there by the river? I guess he could be turning Ax into a bluff, but that seems optimistic.
Yes we're getting a good price to call on the river, but this situation reemphasizes why we should have folded the flop.
