1/3, TT facing 3-bet and a cold call
1/3 500 effective - 8 handed
Hero has black TT and opens UTG to ten.
Button IDK, dressed like a lawyer maybe, bald with some white hair on the sides, seemed thoughtful - pumps it to 50
SB is from Spain, but is a regular. Better than average, always aggressive - talks a lot with a good bit of it directly aimed at picking up clues about someone’s holding. This time he said nothing, but flipped in a couple of quarters.
Hero ?
Great odds to call, but are we ever ahead?
We will be caught in the middle, is it still worth a call? Would a squeeze to 200 or 300 be worth considering? Tight fold? Would a jam right now fold enough better hands to be +EV?
166b effective just call. Fold better than raise/jam imo.
We’re obviously playing it as a pure set mine in these positions which I know this forum hates.
Was going to fold to the BN, but with the cold call I'm calling as well, and then folding flop most of the time.
Call. Definitely don't fold heads up either.
Way too strong to fold, too deep to jam, too shallow to 4! fold. That leaves call as the best of the bad options.
So, I move along as we agree to call.
Hero calls with TT
(150) Flop 7s9h4s
SB leads 125
Hero?
Aren’t we committed with our next action, whatever we do? We have a player left to act, do we ever raise here?
Massive equity, but that could all change on the turn and the board is semi-wet. So, would you consider a tight fold?
Am I folding this hand because it’s 1/3 or am I calling this hand because it’s 1/3?
This is why I’m in constant search for population data - any suggestions on where to look?
Fold and it's not even close imho. A cold-calling range from the SB should be something like 88-QQ and a bunch of broadways, and only suited spades and TT+ will lead. And suited spades might not even lead 100%. So he either has you crushed or is about 50/50, and BN probably has you crushed anyway.
Villain description was "dressed like a lawyer maybe, bald with some white hair on the sides, seemed thoughtful" and no information on any prior 3bets. This range is probably JJ+, AK, possibly only QQ+. I'd guess we have about 30% equity heads-up. And you don't always win someone's entire stack when you hit the T. I don't think calling this heads-up is a blunder but I doubt it's +EV.
Call pre, fold flop. It’s a pure set mine imo.
Not quite a pure set mine, but when a player who probably isn't 3!ing light goes 5/6 pot on the wet dynamic flop, he probably has a better overpair, so fold.
Not quite a pure set mine, but when a player who probably isn't 3!ing light goes 5/6 pot on the wet dynamic flop, he probably has a better overpair, so fold.
We’re in the middle of 2 players of which one is a reg. It’s a pure setmine. Also the one betting isn’t the one who 3bet. It’s the Spanish reg who overcalled.
We’re in the middle of 2 players of which one is a reg. It’s a pure setmine. Also the one betting isn’t the one who 3bet. It’s the Spanish reg who overcalled.
Depends on the flop and the action. There might be situations where you might think the overpair is good. Also, other decent flops than sets, like 987.
I'd limp in from this position but that's me.
Calling the preflop 3bet is dicey, imo. We're only getting IO of about 13:1, will be OOP and only 3way (all poor for setmining), although the SPR will be 3 (so it's unlikely 3bettor will be able to get away from an overpear, atlhough he won't always have that and will often get us to fold the best hand when he doesn't). It's a meh spot, imo.
Not sure why we think we have "massive equity" on the flop? I'm folding to this huge bet and the 3bettor still behind us. If we're not folding most flops where we don't flop a set I can't see how a preflop call is profitable (as it is already a very dicey setmine).
GcluelessNLnoobG
We’re in the middle of 2 players of which one is a reg. It’s a pure setmine. Also the one betting isn’t the one who 3bet. It’s the Spanish reg who overcalled.
I'm perplexed by the reg's big flop donk tbh. I'm not sure I have a donking range for that size from the SB, MW. It looks FOS. Why is the reg forcing a BU rec to call a big bet right away, (and whose own 3! size of 5x was wonky) and was very likely going to cbet this flop anyway?
I guess to begin answering this, what is a reg's SB cold call range at what will be SPR ~4 to SPR 3 (if UTG calls.)? I don't see it as identical to UTG's calling range, closing the action. Just things like AK-AQs, QQ-JJ? Assuming they don't simply 4! I don't think a lot of TT-55 w/e are in it, because of the threat of a UTG 4!
Whiffed AK-AQs might just donk big like this and see if a conservative-looking BU rec looks at an OP and starts getting mubsy. (Though x-jamming I think has higher FE.) This shouldn't hit UTG much or at all either, unless UTG has broadway spades.
Curious.
Yeah, huge donk from reg is strange. He has to assume 3-bettor has QQ+ a lot. It isn't a good spot for a pure bluff. He could be leading with a set to stack a big pair. Maybe he was a strong draw, but I would think he would x/r and x/c with that. Don't think we can continue.
I'm perplexed by the reg's big flop donk tbh. I'm not sure I have a donking range for that size from the SB, MW. It looks FOS. Why is the reg forcing a BU rec to call a big bet right away, (and whose own 3! size of 5x was wonky) and was very likely going to cbet this flop anyway?I guess to begin answering this, what is a reg's SB cold call range at what will be SPR ~4 to SPR
I think this is a correct range. I'd add to that that in my experience it's almost always those hands from regs who elect not to cold 4b but don't want to fold strong hands.
I remember looking at this spot in solvers before where SB cold calls QQ-JJ and I believe it had some donks, it was a while ago so I may be completely wrong. Maybe Submersible can provide his services here, I'm not home for another week so no access to solver.
Sizing is probably way too big.
Depends on the flop and the action. There might be situations where you might think the overpair is good. Also, other decent flops than sets, like 987.
Let me be clear, I am treating it as a pure set-mine. I'm not losing anymore money on any flop but MAYBE 987 and that highly depends on bet-sizing. There's no flop where I consider an overpair to be good vs 2 ranges of which 1 def crushes us.
Let me be clear, I am treating it as a pure set-mine. I'm not losing anymore money on any flop but MAYBE 987 and that highly depends on bet-sizing. There's no flop where I consider an overpair to be good vs 2 ranges of which 1 def crushes us.
Good point from good poster. One or both of them probably has a higher pp.
Agree this forum is negative on set mining. It is marginal here, but generally very profitable against loose players in multiway pots.
This isn't even a tight fold, it's an instamuck at pretty much all stakes - possible exception if you're playing some side game.
V is donking big into two strong ranges, one that has 99/77, one that has QQ+ and NFDs galore. My WAG is that he has 99/JJ or a combo draw like JTss (do we block Ts?) V is super OOL if he has something that we aren't in bad shape against. Even "bluffs" like AJss have tons of equity against us. And then you have the original 3!er who will somewhat often have a bigger pair.
Straightforward flop fold more because of the button still left to act than anything else.
Preflop is fine, agree with others.
Reveal is a nut-changer
There’s 55% equity against either opponent, but combined they have odds.
Just an unfortunate fold for hero
So Now
Button raises 350 and SB shoves 450, so the money was going in.
But crazy run out
SB had 44 and the flop went 7s9h4s
Hero had TT and the turn was 7s9h4sTh
But before Hero could have an emotion
Button had AsQs and the river 7s9h4sTh2s for the nut flush and the win.
How am I supposed to read players that play like this? How many of you put these hands in their range with this action?
I thought the SB was one of the better players in the room - but how do put all your money in preflop with 44?
Reading players in the 1/3 world is a grind!
Actually messed up my own post
SB hit the set before he got it in
Just hate hands like this
SB's preflop call is probably not good, but not a big mistake. He sort of has odds if hero calls. He is cold calling, so getting worse pot odds than hero with a worse hand and not closing the action. BTN's 3! with AQs is of course fine, but not expected given reads. Flat calling by BTN would also have been OK.
Reads on players maybe off. SB is worse than expected. BTN is better than expected.
I said I thought SB has a set, but didn't expect 44.
That 2-outer hit on turn doesn't change that hero had really easy fold on the flop.
Actually TT would have been good on some low flops, but you would have had to fold it to any action given preflop.
SB's preflop call is probably not good, but not a big mistake. He sort of has odds if hero calls. He is cold calling, so getting worse pot odds than hero with a worse hand and not closing the action. BTN's 3! with AQs is of course fine, but not expected given reads. Flat calling by BTN would also have been OK.
100% agreed. Was fully expecting a Euro reg to show up with JJ+ here. 44 is an ambitious call and I’m being generous lol.
Button having AQss isn’t surprising.
