Four-way to the flop with AKs in the SB
1/2. Rake/promo/tip is 6+3+1.
V1 (550) is a Chinese female OMC drinking tea. She raised AKo, AQs, and JJ. She limped and showed down TT and KJo. No 3bets. She has mostly folded to aggression preflop and post flop. She won a big all in with AKo.
V2 (450) is a regular calling station with VPIP/RFI/3bet of 40/15/6. Limp-calls regularly. Fit or fold on the flop. He plays too many hands, and gets rid of his bad hands by folding. Highly aware, remembers everyone’s hole cards.
V3 (525) is a whale, down already 700 (hero took his stack), limping, limp calling, calling 3bets, 3betting KQo in the LJ. He plays too many hands and calls with many bad hands post flop.
Hero (975) has been on a heater. Another V called him out as the table bully. He has a LAG image to V1 and V3. V2 knows hero. To V2, hero is a TAG.
OTT
V3 whale straddles the button 5. Hero with AsKs in SB raises 20. Vs call. Four-way.
Flop (72): Kc8h6d
Hero?
22 Replies
More pre. I like checking first to act here and going for a cr.
I like a x/r as well.
You can also bet relatively small e.g. $25 and see what happens.
Sounds like we proceed with caution if V1 or V2 stick around and ideally we stack the whale again.
xr seems like an overplay.
You only have TPTK. Would do it with more than a pair or as a semibluff or bluff.
I'm not a fan of trying to x/r. I think it checks around too much and if someone does call our x/r on a flop this dry we aren't feeling great about it.
Just bet. Since we are pretty deep I think we can go chunky like $40-$50 and expect most of these players to call with Kx.
if you check its to c/c
on a king high board just bet small i dont think worse hands bet for you esp 4 way
I’m not too scared of this flop, but I am scared of too many players chasing, so I’m tossing in a couple of quarters and see what happens.
In the hand, I thought: 4-way, I should overbet this pot and hope to get it heads up and play for stacks against the whale. I'm hoping everyone folds and the whale OTB feels the pressure of bearing the cost of defense.
After the hand, one V said hero had AK. Another V said: what else would he have? Still another: AK. The dealer asked what do you have here except AK? I said AA, KK, KQs, 88, 86. Can you list other hands? 66, 97, I wanted to say: I overplayed AK.
I get the play was transparent. I later thought: I wanted get V1 to fold and go heads-up against V2 or V3, playing for stacks. V2 is aware but calls with KT+. V3 the whale thought hero was truly FOS and calls with all K9+, K8s. V3 raises or bets his two-pair and sets. I still had one more big bet. I could just check or bluff. It's 4-way.
V3 the whale talked all night about looking people up making river bluffs. After losing his stack to me, he asked questions on strategy. Was this a mistake? He showed his cards. He calls an overbet because he ego was bruised losing money. He's on vacation, he has limited time, he won't come back until next New Years. His ego wants to show hero is FOS so he feel better.
An editor, my wife and I argue over the meaning of a couple. For her it's two quarters. For me, it's a few its three to four, like a couple of grapes.
I agree, raise more pre, now that I think about it, hero is exploitable to V2, V2 probably folds all K, and calls smaller bets.
This board hits your range and is pretty dry. I don't like overbetting as a cbet. The trend is to small cbets based on solver analysis, which I don't think it good, but overbet cbets multiway are unusual. You also can bet larger of a wet flop. This is a dry static flop. The overbet might make Ks fold.
If you made it 40 or whatever, you maybe take it anyway. On this flop, if you missed with QJs, AQ or something, it might be a good cbet bluff multiway.
If you have a lag image what's the issue with it checking around? Good to have some strong hands in your checking range.
I would cbet a size that looks like it could be a bluff cbet. The board favors you, so you could be cbetting with air. You don't want to make it look like you have AK and are scared of being drawn out on. Low stakes players don't call with KQ/KJ/KT/Kxs to fold on this flop. Probably no one had anything, but you could maybe get 3 streets from KQ.
$100 is simply too much. There aren't any high equity draws on this board and even KQ is a fairly trivial fold that I think even fish find. If you're blasting over pot out of the gate, everyone is going to expect the money to be all in on the turn. So you're only getting called by all in hands.
A big bet is good to ensure it gets heads up, but you want to bet something Kx can call. Likely nobody has Kx and $50 would have just taken it down too, but then you're risking a lot less when you run into a set and you get more value when Vs do have Kx or middle pair A kicker.
Grunch:
PRE - when the BTN straddle is on, I do more limp-3B'ing with big hands in the blinds. If we raise, I like to use a larger size, because I expect more pots to multi-way if we open smaller.
Here, if your image is table bully, I'd open VERY large, expecting someone to think we're just trying to run over the table, and 3B us, or just call down light.
FLOP - I could see arguments for checking or just coming out and betting. Usually when I'm betting from OOP I'll use a larger size, but when there are loose and splashy players in the pot, we could be value-owning ourselves against some 2P that otherwise wouldn't be here, so if we bet, I'd probably bet small.
I think checking is fine. I don't like c-betting the flop, getting called, and then checking turn if we don't improve. I'd rather check flop and make a delayed c-bet on a turn brick if the flop checks through.
Arguments can be made for checking, betting small, and betting large.
We're starting out pretty deep, we're multi-way, we're OOP, and the table may have turned against us, leading our opponents to calling wider pre, and possibly getting sticky post.
I wouldn't want to over-commit to TPTK on the flop. I'd like to bet small, around $20, and see if anyone wants to raise. If not, I'd size up on a turn brick.
You could check, bet small, or bet large. However, the actual cbet of 100 into 72 was terrible. It folds out hands that might call you down for 3 streets. Then you aren't that comfortable if called and maybe have to fold to a flop raise.
In the hand, I thought: 4-way, I should overbet this pot and hope to get it heads up and play for stacks against the whale. I'm hoping everyone folds and the whale OTB feels the pressure of bearing the cost of defense.After the hand, one V said hero had AK. Another V said: what else would he have? Still another: AK. The dealer asked what do you have here except AK? I said AA, K
While going bigger with bets is often good because live regs make too many calling mistakes it doesn't mean every street every hand we flop TPTK+ has to be an over-bet. You would do yourself a real favor studying board textures and when and why to over-bet.
An editor, my wife and I argue over the meaning of a couple. For her it's two quarters. For me, it's a few its three to four, like a couple of grapes.
You and your wife are a couple. Are you three to four or is it just the 2 of you? You're not a couple anymore if it's the first one btw so you should apologize to your wife for being wrong.
While going bigger with bets is often good because live regs make too many calling mistakes it doesn't mean every street every hand we flop TPTK+ has to be an over-bet. You would do yourself a real favor studying board textures and when and why to over-bet.
Yes, solvers recommend overbets in specific situations. Many misuse them overbetting TPTK on a dry board like this or as a bluff to try to intimidate someone into folding.
Wrong Post (Edited)
