GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

Common sense.

Not as common as you think.

I should probably put that in the OP.

Thoughts?

I've convinced people, although few NEED convincing because every poll shows MJ is still the goat nearly 30 years after he retired.

MJ's goat status has simply stood the test of time

Instead, it's Lebron who isn't even #2 in numerous polls.. This is because a growing number of people are waking up to how much of a perennial loser he is and possibly the neediest player ever.. The historical record speaks for itself and people can see it because now there's a big sample/history of losses to many different teams... all of this was with superstar teammates and the best or most tweaked/fine-tuned rosters in the league.. And now he's single-handedly DESTROYED the lakers' season - it would actually be amazing if it wasn't completely predicted by myself and a few others

Common sense says that since Lebron had a big sample with every type of superstar teammate, lineup, coach and organization, he isn't capable of producing great teams and dynasties like his peers.. He simply produces weaker teams

When we look at why, we see that zero rookies went from low producer to meaningful producer on his watch (zero young player development for 20 seasons).. The lack of young player development was caused by the imposition of spot-up roles, which also prevented elite ball movement or high assist teams.. These factors clearly drive the inherently weaker teams that Lebron produces.. By producing weaker teams, Lebron is an inferior basketball player to Curry, Duncan, Kobe and Jordan, for starters

Bron did get Bosh & KLove rings…

And Kyrie and AD. Wade got one with Shaq. Other than that. No important player who win with LeBron ever won without him.

AD is the first player in history to lift a lottery team to champion in 1 year, and he did it by leading the Lakers in scoring, while turning the defense from worst to first... (and also dominating Jokic).

As the leading scorer and defensive anchor that transformed the team, AD was the savior that got Lebron a ring.. Lebron was literally the 2nd leading scorer/2nd option, while getting carried defensively.

You're saying that Lebron won guys chips but lebron COST wade his 2nd title and fmvp in 2011.... So Lebron didn't win anything for anyone, since he COST wade a ring and was TAUGHT how to win by Wade.. Wade taught Lebron and Bosh how to win.

Finally, Kyrie and Love made the Finals without Lebron.. That's pretty good, so why pretend that they didn't do anything??..;They literally made the Finals without him and were all-star MVP or All-NBA before joining him.. Ultimately, Lebron needed unprecedented help by having sidekicks outplay league MVP's... i.e. Kyrie over Curry, AD over Jokic, and Wade outplayed Dirk - this is unprecedented help/the best help ever, yet Lebron mostly lost with all these guys and never produced dynasties

150 players in history would match or exceed 2 for 4 with Wade/Bosh... Or 1 for 4 with Love/Kyrie... And obviously 1 for 6 with AD is a complete joke and horrible.

None of that is goat caliber.. Why didn't he produce a dynasty like many other guys did?.. No one played with more stars or had more opportunities than Lebron, yet he produced the most bad losses ever.. Specifically, bad teams upset him and good teams beat him by record amount or swept him..

Ultimately, decades of barely winning 50 games with big 3's and a lottery record against Finals teams proves that Lebron simply produces weaker teams.. He produces the weakest teams of any top 15 candidate.

The worst team in the league still wins 10+ games, but obviously it doesn't make sense to praise the 10 wins... Yet that's what you're doing with Lebron - you're praising 1 win among a sea of losses and a lottery record on the championship level.

Essentially, I would hope that teaming up with Kyrie/Love would produce AT LEAST one ring... That's the bare minimum that any superstar should expect when teaming up with an opposing franchise player, let alone TWO franchise players ("big 3")... 1 chip in this scenario is nothing to brag about, especially when it required unprecedented help.. i .e. Kyrie outplayed the league MVP and "closed", but somehow Lebron got him the ring?.. Absurd..

Imagine if Pippen matched Jordan's scoring, while also outplaying MVP Malone or Barkley, and then hit the historic winner - no one would say that Jordan got Pippen a ring in this scenario.. Of course, the reality is the opposite because Pippen never got within 10 ppg of Jordan in any series - he averaged 10-30 less than Jordan in every series.. It's a primary reason that Jordan is goat (no one carried teams to multiple titles like him).

Ultimately, Wade taught Lebron and Bosh how to win, while AD was 1st option and defensive anchor, and then Kyrie/Love made the Finals without Lebron.

Btw, I'm sure that when Bosh and Love were both averaging 25 ppg with their own team, they figured that any team with them as THIRD option would have a dynasty and win many rings.. This would normally be true unless you team up with a high scoring, high assist player, aka "ball-dominator - then you'll see your assisted buckets/spot-up role increase, which will crater your assists and create low assist teams that have a lottery record on the championship level.

Oh so making the finals means something now?

Lebron 10
Jordan 6

Game over.

Making the Finals isn't a goat-level achievement but it means something when we're talking about the cast's accomplishments and measuring a cast's viability.

But it means little for the 1st option or goat consideration.. Regardless, Wade was FMVP and taught Lebron how to win - Lebron needed that, and that's all that matters.

Furthermore, the reality is that conference finals opponents are just 2nd Round winners.. And who cares about beating 2nd Round winners when you needed to put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team to do it.

It's absurd to put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team and then want props for winning the conference after that... Lebron literally diluted the conference and consolidated power on 1 team.. It's all part of the fraud - a completely manufactured career that AVOIDED developing chemistry in favor of talent-based winning (all-star team strategy)... Since he never really learned how to have great chemistry and great teams, he's inferior to guys that did (Duncan, Curry, MZj, Kobe - for starters).

Wade would be the first to remind you that he ranged before LeBron did, and that Shaq himself says he carried the Heat while he (Shaq) “partied every ****ing night in Miami”.

Edit: I probably overrate Wade and I’m a Jazz fan. My overrating of him doesn’t involve Jordan, and that’s all I’ll say about it.

For Lebron to "get Wade a ring", he had to COST wade a ring by choking in 2011 and leaving Wade to dominate by himself (showing Lebron how to perform under pressure, aka how to win).

For Lebron to "get Kyrie a ring", Kyrie had to provide more help than any sidekick in history, such as being the 1st sidekick to outplay a league MVP and/or hit the series winner.

For Lebron to "get AD a ring ", he needed to be 2nd in scoring to AD, while also getting carried on defense as AD turned the defense from worse to first (and the Lakers from lottery to champion).

Let us know when Kyrie or AD win a ring without LeBron. They play together with Cooper Flagg and Klay Thompson, that whole group put together isn't as good as Lebron I guess.

Let me know when Lebron wins anything without needing Wade to show him how.

Lebron was either lottery, upset, or locked up every year from 2004 to 2010, so he never did anything until he started teaming up with opponents in 2011 (opposing franchise players).

Lebron was also lottery without AD and can't beat Jokic without AD being the best player in the world.. AD brought the Lakers out of lottery, not Lebron.. Let that sink in.

Ultimately, Lebron panicked in 2010 - he felt that he couldn't win with "normal" rosters of 1 franchise player like his peers did, so he formed "super-teams" of 3 franchise players, aka Big 3's (and still mostly lost badly)... He's a joke.. The reason that he can't win with normal rosters is because he lacks the chemistry - his skillset increases everyone's assisted buckets/spot-up role, which craters their assists and produces low assist teams over time.

^^^ it's a good case for him using roids, but the reality is that everyone's scoring rate went up from 2017 forward when the rules changed again (no impeding, no bumping cutters - more hands-off than ever - designed for "downhill" skillsets).

Curry, Durant, Harden, Westbrook and everyone saw their ppg increase above their younger years.

Btw, Jordan reached 10k in less than 300 games.. So what a dumb video

Ultimately, Lebron isn't top 10 all-time in any category, aka he isn't considered a top 10 scorer, and he isn't top 10 in career RPG, APG, SPG or BPG... He simply isn't a top 10 scorer, passer, rebounder, blocker, or stealer.. Otoh, MJ is the goat scorer, while also having a case for goat stealer (goat 2-way player)

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^^^ The Lakers offense is WORSE when Lebron is on the floor, while their defense also craters, so Lebron simply isn't playable for big minutes like 40-year MJ was.. MJ made the Wizards' offense better with no drop-off in defense over 37 MPG.

Lebron's first negative on off season came at age 40 in his 22nd season.

Kobe was negative at ages 35, 36, and 37. 18th, 19th, and 20th seasons. So Kobe sucks?

Kobe had 5 rings, so nobody cared

Yes, Kobe stunk for his last several years

This is common knowledge

The difference is that Kobe's passion to play and competitiveness never wavered - he would never say that he didn't feel like playing or cavort with the opposing bench.

Kobe's superior love for the game stems from a higher level of skills and pure scoring ability, while LeStiffArm's skillset is more robotic, and tbh, less maleable to different or more sophisticated team offenses.. Kobe's ability to execute superior offensive strategy and chemistry allowed him to win with less talent, such as a 2nd option (Pau) that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options (Love, Bosh, Jamison).

Precisely

That's why everyone understood/accepted his decline

And it's also why he wasn't knocked for losing to the 11' Mavs... Kobe already had 5 chips, while Lebron was in a situation where people wondered if he would ever win - he had lost as the favorite for 2 straight years, so the 3rd straight in 2011 made people wonder if he had a unique choking gene or something that prevented winning.. Obviously, this contrasts with Kobe already winning 5 times

it was a pretty big deal when the Lakers got swept by the 11' Mavs.

Luka is just a chucker now. Come on 10.5 attempts from 3 per game at less than 32% now? His FG% sucks too.

Luka is a positive player that is carrying negative players like Lebron.

So that's what happens when 1 guy is carrying the team and dead weight/negative players like Lebron.

Ultimately, Lebron is the problem because the Lakers are worse on offense and defense with him on the floor - he's the biggest negative on the team, while Luka is positive and improves the offense.

It's easy to forget that Reaves' superior jumpshooting and Kyrie-like bag fit with Luka like a GLOVE .. Defense wasn't AS BIG a concern because the defensive requirements were lower - opponents were more worn down from defending the Luka/Reaves onslaught - the Lakers could just outscore teams and wear teams out.

But not anymore now that LeCancer is back.. The offense stalls and opponents are fresh as a daisy from not having to defend a top offense anymore - so they get hot as ****... And that's the story of Lebron's career - teams are fresh from guarding the easy bron-ball, so they go off offensively and get "hot".. See the 14' Finals for the biggest lesson ever in brand of ball.. The Spurs, Warriors and Nuggets taught Lebron a lesson in brand of ball - his inferior brand of ball is why he has a lottery record against Finals teams and can't win or produce great teams like MJ, Curry, Duncan or Kobe

Nope.. 3-peats normally fail so it wasn't a big deal like when Lebron lost the Finals because he was upset for the 3rd straight year while seeking his 1st title... People wondered if he had a special choking gene that prevented winning, whereas Kobe had was already one of the biggest winners ever.. Kobe was viewed as an ASSASSIN, while Lebron was viewed as a historic CHOKER.. this is the historical record and common knowledge.