GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
Fidstar helped by showing that the Wizards' defense in 2003 remained basically the same with Jordan on the floor (104.1 drtg) compared to off the floor (103.7), while the offense improved significantly.
This is FG in a nut shell.
Presented with two sets of data, he elects to cherry pick the better set for his argument.
It is also noted that he thinks that an increase of 3.2pp 100 is "improved significantly".
Based on this FG, what are your thoughts on the defense being 3.5pp 100 worse off in 2002 when MJ was on the court? Logic would say you would think this is "significantly worse"? But, you would never say that...
He played 600 fewer games for ****s sake. Lebron is closer to doubling him up on games and minutes than Jordan is to him.
Boo hoo
With 600 more games and 8 more seasons, surely your alleged "goat" won a bunch more titles than Jordan...
But instead, the fraud had a ton of "bad losses", aka blown away with a superstar teammate (sweep or gentleman sweep) - this never happened to Jordan..
For 16 of 22 seasons, Lebron was either lottery, upset, locked up in a series loss, or he had a "bad loss" (sweep or gentleman sweep with a superstar teammate)..
Secondly, Lebron's best friend (Randy Mims) was just a regular guy, so he could've gone to a regular doctor to get the "weight loss" treatments of testosterone and HcG... The only reason he accessed the black market is to protect Lebron.. If you read the ESPN article on Biogenesis, it's clear that Lebron was juicing... You can also look at how his bird legs becoming tree trunks - that isn't normal - bird legs normally remain bird legs.
Ultimately, Jordan is better at 40 because he can play meaningful minutes, while Lebron can't without being a massive negative and cratering his team's drtg and ortg
This is FG in a nut shell.
Presented with two sets of data, he elects to cherry pick the better set for his argument.
It is also noted that he thinks that an increase of 3.2pp 100 is "improved significantly".
You ultimately proved why 40-year MJ was superior: he can play meaningful minutes, while Lebron can't without being a massive negative and cratering his team's drtg and ortg. Lebron can't play major minutes and have the team win when he's on the floor (positive plus minus), while MJ can
Based on this FG,
what are your thoughts on the defense being 3.5pp 100 worse off in 2002 when MJ was on the court? Logic would say you would think this is "significantly worse"? But, you would never say that...
Post Lebron's numbers so everyone can see Jordan's vast superiority
Ultimately, you were wrong because 40-year MJ didn't reduce the defense (104.1 to 103.7), while Lebron cratered his team's defense (and offense)
Lebron sucked yesterday. He only went 11-13 from the field with a +22 and his team fell to an embarrassing 20-10 on the season.
LeBron, as FG says, has been terrible this year.
LeBron - 20/7/5, 19.2 PER, 0.106 WS/48, 3.1 BPM
Jordan's Wizard years - 21/6/4, 19.9 PER, 0.89 WS/48, 2.3 BPM
Still better than MJ. And he's 2-3 years older.
Update
Lebron - 21/7/5 20.1 PER, 0.121 WS/48, 3.6 BPM
Now comfortably better than Wizards MJ.
Update
Lebron - 21/7/5 20.1 PER, 0.121 WS/48, 3.6 BPM
Now comfortably better than Wizards MJ.
Since the numbers show that the Lakers are far better without Lebron on both sides of the ball, Lebron isn't good or competitive anymore and he needs to be benched..
That's a statistical fact - the Lakers are much better without him (on both sides of the ball).
Since Lebron can't play major minutes without destroying the Lakers on both sides of the ball, he's nowhere near 40-year MJ, who made his team better on offense while maintaining on defense over 37 MPG
It's okay. MJ wasn't very good. He destroyed the Wizards on the defensive end in one of the season (based on your logic of 3pp 100 possessions fulfilling those criteria)
Oh, just noticed that the Lakers are now the same when LeBron is on and off the court on the offensive end. Still destroying them on the offensive end though obviously.
But it doesn't really matter. What LeBron is doing now means nothing in the GOAT debate, other than it's amazing he's still playing. MJ admitted his body wasn't up to it any more at that age.
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MOST-USED LINEUP (Lebron/Luka/Reaves/Ayton/Rui)............... 103.2 ortg... 123.1 drtg.... -19.9 net
2ND-MOST-USED LINEUP (Smart/Luka/Reaves/Ayton/Rui)........ 115.6 ortg... 100.6 drtg... +15.0 net
But it doesn't really matter. What LeBron is doing now means nothing in the GOAT debate, other than it's amazing he's still playing. MJ admitted his body wasn't up to it any more at that age.
There's no "debate"
I'm just informing you about Jordan's career and how bad lebron is by comparison
No one is debating - you guys gave up on making a case for Lebron when I showed you how Lebron increases teammates' assisted buckets/spot-up role, thus cratering their assists and producing low assist teams over time.. Having higher assist teams MATTERS because Lebron can't win a playoff series without it - he always needed higher team assists to win a playoff series - his team must overcome his weakness (low team assists) to win.
Btw, it's funny because now that we've discovered 40-year Lebron is a horrible player (destroys his team on both sides of the ball), you want to say these years don't matter in a goat debate.... Lol
Oh, just noticed that the Lakers are now the same when LeBron is on and off the court on the offensive end. Still destroying them on the offensive end though obviously.
As Reaves misses more and more games, Lebron will look better and better
But we know that Lebron can't get anywhere near the offensive level that Luka/Reaves had to begin the year - they were taking over the league until Lebron came back... Having to carry LeDeadWeight (LeNegative) caused the wheels to fall off and injuries ensued... If you add a bunch of dead weight to a boat, it sinks.. The bow breaks
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A career of failing expectation
And when Lebron first entered the league, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter.. That was among the biggest failures of expectation in sports history
..A career of failing expectation And when Lebron first entered the league, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter.. That was among the biggest failures of expectation in sports history
Considering he is commonly seen as at the very least the 2nd best player ever imagine how high the expectations must have been for him to be amongst the biggest failures of expectations in sports history.
We know that FG think LeBron should have been 82-0 and 16-0 every season. That is the expectation.
FG is still yet to grasp the concept of odds and that LeBron has constantly out performed them.
Wonder what the odds would have been if you switched out Lebron with even a just above average NBA player in any of those rosters each year. Makes you think.
We know that FG think LeBron should have been 82-0 and 16-0 every season. That is the expectation.
The expectation is to get past the 1st Round with Luka or AD, or do better than 1 for 6 with AD, and also make the playoffs with a top preseason favorite in 2019 or 2022..
Why are you guys pretending that these expectations are too high?.. Making the playoffs or getting past the 1st Round is too big an expectation?.. You guys literally need your head checked.
Furthermore, why are you saying dumb stuff like 82-0???... the expectation is to win 60+ games with Kyrie/Love or Wade/Bosh, or AD/Luka, yet he barely won 50 games every year and only won 60 games once in 14 seasons with these guys.. That's a joke - that's a massive fraud that you fell for..
The expectation is to produce the best team when you have the preseason favorite (the best on-paper talent in the league), but instead Lebron barely wins 50 games with the preseason favorite and falls to underdog.
We know that FG think LeBron should have been 82-0 and 16-0 every season. That is the expectation.
The expectation is to mostly win every year when you have a superstar teammate - aka produce great teams and nearly unbeatable with a star teammate - that's the goat standard,
Unfortunately, other guys meet this standard far better than Lebron.. Other guys produced soaring dynasties and unbeatable teams that win 60 or 70 games, while Lebron produced perennial losers and weak teams that barely win 50 games.
We know that FG think LeBron should have been 82-0 and 16-0 every season. That is the expectation.
The expectation is to NOT be one of the 5 biggest favorites to ever lose a playoff series like Lebron in 09'
aka the expectation is to NOT choke with 7 turnovers in the 4th quarter of Game 4 to lose to Dwight Howard - a 1-star team and +700 underdog.
The expectation is to NOT meltdown in the middle of the 2010 ECSF and lose as a -500 favorite, or choke in the 11' Finals.. I can go on and on because Lebron is THAT big of a joke with THAT many failures.
FG is still yet to grasp the concept of odds and that LeBron has constantly out performed them.
He literally failed them 7 times as the chart shows above!!!... 
And compared to his peers like Curry and Duncan, Lebron is horrible at meeting expectation - they drastically outperform the odds compared to him.
So you're just lying and in denial
Seek help
Wonder what the odds would have been if you switched out Lebron with even a just above average NBA player in any of those rosters each year. Makes you think.
You couldn't be more wrong
Oddsmakers were skittish on Lebron in 2011 because he lost as the favorite the previous 2 seasons - that's why his big 3 super-team was only a small favorite against a 1-star team in the 11' Finals... Anyone else with a super-team would've been favored much more against a surprise, 1-star team like Dallas.
And obviously, oddsmakers hated Lebron even more when he lost as the favorite again in 2011 (3 straight upset losses), so they made his veteran super-team an underdog to baby Westbrick in 2012.
Ultimately, Lebron's "big 3" rosters began as the preseason favorite every year from 2011 to 2016... However, they fell to underdog after barely winning 50 games in the regular season... So Lebron was a Finals underdog when others wouldn't have been.
Furthermore, Lebron wasn't the preseason favorite until he teamed up with opposing franchise players in 2011.. This contrasts with Curry or Jordan, who won with underdog rosters before they were viewed as favorites thereafter.. They had to EARN preseason favorite status, while Lebron manufactured it.
Happy 2026 FG. I hope 2026 brings you a year you finally convince one person MJ is better than LeBron.
The 18' Celtics were missing Kyrie, so they were an injured team and not considered good, yet people still give Lebron props for beating them.. And Lebron LOST to injured teams, aka the 09' Magic were missing their all-star point guard Jameer Nelson, so Dwight had the injury excuse but still won!!
Meanwhile, the Bulls were decimated by injury in 1998 and Pippen missed 35 games.... However, Jordan only ever needed the triangle, aka good strategy, not Pippen, so the Bulls still went 24-11 and maintained the 1 seed... The homecourt advantage proved critical in Game 7 of the ECF vs Indiana.
So injuries can be overcome by carry-jobs, but we already know that Lebron always loses when he has to carry the scoring load against top teams - he can't successfully carry the scoring load against top 5 SRS teams or Finals teams because excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams.. He never beat a top 5 SRS team with the kind of bad series from Pippen that Pippen frequently had.. he LOST with 18 on 37% from Mo (Pippen-caliber) as a -700 favorite against an injured, 1-star team..
Btw, in addition to having more scoring help/options, those early Cavs teams were top 3 defensive teams, so they had greater help on both sides of the ball than the 1st three-peat Bulls - the Cavs were also a top defensive team long before Lebron became All-defense, aka stacked defensive cast
